#info-wars (Discord ID: 469490581899575297) in Willem Petzer Live Chat, page 2


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2018-07-20 11:58:17 UTC

props for the flat earth yin yang video

2018-07-20 11:59:14 UTC

Love it. The motion of the moon is not correct though.

2018-07-20 11:59:15 UTC

first thing that makes me want to do some maths

2018-07-20 12:00:20 UTC

What do you want to calculate?

2018-07-20 12:01:07 UTC

watching the moon spiralling between the tropics

2018-07-20 12:01:33 UTC

to get a period that lines up to our 13 month 365 day cycle

2018-07-20 12:03:25 UTC

I strongly suspect that this is how the moon behaves over the circle of the earth, just like the astronomical clock in Prague - which is just a mini flat earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ijbu-Z3Twk

2018-07-20 12:04:40 UTC

I ran into something interesting a while ago, can't find the link but it was researchers talking about the field of historiography, the study of the methods of historians and comparative historiography, trying to make timelines out of various data. what they found was that there were a few periods in history where things just didn't line up. they compared astrological events noted in histories and when events were supposed to happen. One of the things they discovered was there are major discrepancies in our accepted historical timeline in the 3rd century AD and 18th century AD

2018-07-20 12:04:43 UTC

Are we really back on flat earth

2018-07-20 12:05:27 UTC

Also why is discussing the Talmud in conspiracy-corner

2018-07-20 12:05:32 UTC

we're putting the flat earth in the rucksack today we're chatting about other stuff, I just wanted some info

2018-07-20 12:05:46 UTC

we're trying to keep <#468388839799390210> neater

2018-07-20 12:05:57 UTC

ahhh okay

2018-07-20 12:06:06 UTC

maybe <#469830219889377283>?

2018-07-20 12:06:14 UTC

ah

2018-07-20 12:06:18 UTC

that just started

2018-07-20 12:06:21 UTC

cool

2018-07-20 12:07:04 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/469490581899575297/469837647989440512/flat-earth-key-to-enochs-6-gates-of-the-sun_orig.jpg

2018-07-20 12:07:04 UTC

Ditsem! @Deejay from Earth, you just advanced to level 7!

2018-07-20 12:07:06 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/469490581899575297/469837655979458560/Sunset_Athens.jpg

2018-07-20 12:08:19 UTC

I'm still open minded on this, but I'm like a bunch of people that have flown, seen curves

2018-07-20 12:08:36 UTC

but I also know that what I saw was put into whatever framework i had

2018-07-20 12:08:57 UTC

@rob Oooooh yes that shit is so hot right now! Mud-floods, Phillip Druzhinin. Anatoly Fomenko's work. Yes yes yes that stuff is all true.

2018-07-20 12:09:33 UTC

1000 years of fake history. Basically the dark ages and medieval times never happened.

2018-07-20 12:10:02 UTC

well I know that, but I think they were talking about more juicy conspiracy theory stuff

2018-07-20 12:10:16 UTC

I'm thinking 3rd century is the birth of the roman catholic church

2018-07-20 12:10:28 UTC

and the 18th century is the split from the catholic church

2018-07-20 12:11:29 UTC

basically all the euro settler stock (settler was the best word i could find to encompass USA and RSA and AUS, don't shoot me)

2018-07-20 12:11:42 UTC

haha

2018-07-20 12:11:55 UTC

basically all of that stock is breakaway from central control

2018-07-20 12:12:14 UTC

Settler is perfect yes

2018-07-20 12:12:54 UTC

There's HUGE problems with history right now.

2018-07-20 12:13:47 UTC

Agreed yes

2018-07-20 12:13:48 UTC

I firmly believe that our blood is Russian.

2018-07-20 12:13:55 UTC

Here's my thought for the day, I put it in general but this is a better spot. The catholic Eucharist is a satanic ritual put right into christianity at the beginning to corrupt and control it.

2018-07-20 12:14:43 UTC

eating flesh and drinking blood just doesn't jive with me

2018-07-20 12:15:09 UTC

Why do you believe that? And wouldn't a blood test confirm and deny as a matter of fact as opposed to just a suspicion?

2018-07-20 12:15:44 UTC

when you say our blood what do you mean (asking, not EFF)

2018-07-20 12:15:47 UTC

Have you ever heard of Great Tartaria?

2018-07-20 12:16:01 UTC

caucasians?

2018-07-20 12:16:08 UTC

Ek's 'n bruin ou

2018-07-20 12:16:10 UTC

😉

2018-07-20 12:16:17 UTC

I mean white people who believe they have Dutch heritage.

2018-07-20 12:16:46 UTC

Lol no matter rob, this is a spiritual battle, not of flesh and blood.

2018-07-20 12:16:54 UTC

agreed

2018-07-20 12:17:00 UTC

yeah

2018-07-20 12:17:06 UTC

my history is a mystery anyway

2018-07-20 12:17:21 UTC

Oh okay, mothers side of Germanic and fathers side is French

2018-07-20 12:18:20 UTC

Yeah same here, kinda sucks that my history got cut off... Stupid that family broke up not too long ago 😑

2018-07-20 12:18:20 UTC

Trust me when I say everyone's history is fraudulent. I'll post a good starter video series on the subject.

2018-07-20 12:19:09 UTC

Well I'm open to seeing what you have to share DeeJay. I can can entertain ideas

2018-07-20 12:20:21 UTC

My surname comes from an island in denmark, via some french village where the spelling changed

2018-07-20 12:21:14 UTC

but I'm pretty sure most of my history is in the cape

2018-07-20 12:23:59 UTC

I don't want to look for it later lol since this is YouTube videos mostly, create a Playlist, and share the Playlist, will bring your spam count down, but also offer a lot of follow up vids with one link.

2018-07-20 12:27:10 UTC

Let's rock and roll, I'm bored. Spirituality... what is it?

2018-07-20 12:27:54 UTC

My battery is almost flat and you want to start now lol

2018-07-20 12:28:06 UTC

haha

2018-07-20 12:28:10 UTC

hahaha shit ok we can do it later

2018-07-20 12:28:34 UTC

I'll start, bhagavad gita says that life is a series of moments between a subject and and object

2018-07-20 12:28:59 UTC

Let's maybe just get our methods of reasoning straight? Make sure we on the same page in what we accept

2018-07-20 12:29:13 UTC

think of it like a film strip and each frame has a subject and an object

2018-07-20 12:29:46 UTC

@Sheamus Let's not get too formal. Lets just chat and see

2018-07-20 12:30:16 UTC

when we started the scientific method we started measuring the object, and various people recorded their interations with objects, the common factors were noted and we had the scientific method of identifying objective reality

2018-07-20 12:30:24 UTC

@rob In your own personal opinion?

2018-07-20 12:30:38 UTC

the scientists continued drilling down to find the ultimate objects that made up the world

2018-07-20 12:30:58 UTC

all my take on what I understand from the various sources I mention

2018-07-20 12:31:27 UTC

The deepest hole ever drilled is the Kola Ultradeep borehole in Russia somewhere. 12 Kilometers.

2018-07-20 12:31:39 UTC

Why not make this formal? What we've been doing so far is pretty casual, but this is already a topic we formally agreed on doing, which is already formal as i see it.

2018-07-20 12:31:39 UTC

Ditsem! @Sheamus, you just advanced to level 6!

2018-07-20 12:32:13 UTC

in the early 20th century quantum physicists realised that they can't measure an object without affecting it by virtue of the measurement

2018-07-20 12:32:39 UTC

coming back to the point that life is not objects but a series of subject object connections

2018-07-20 12:32:49 UTC

@Sheamus Suggestions?

2018-07-20 12:32:52 UTC

and science is the study of the object

2018-07-20 12:33:15 UTC

spirituality/religion is the study of the subject

2018-07-20 12:34:47 UTC

anyway, just wanted to flesh out what I think the subject/self/soul is in relation to science and religion

2018-07-20 12:34:47 UTC

Ditsem! @rob, you just advanced to level 5!

2018-07-20 12:35:02 UTC

Yeah, let's start with a common principle that we all can agree on? I like the golden rule, And use that principle as reference to our agreement on what we can best relate to as fair and equal.

2018-07-20 12:35:58 UTC

I like the golden rule, I find it easier to explain by describing its opposite

2018-07-20 12:36:14 UTC

Rob you nailed it again

2018-07-20 12:37:03 UTC

humans have the capacity for evil because they know what would feel terrible for themselves to experience and they can therefore do that to others. the golden rule is the opposite of torture/pure evil

2018-07-20 12:37:17 UTC

Materialsim is the opposite of Spirituality.

2018-07-20 12:37:48 UTC

And from there, you can logically deduce the nature of man.

2018-07-20 12:38:33 UTC

Yes, agreed with you guys.. But creation is the balance of the two. Balance is key. Always have to balance everything to solve problems lol

2018-07-20 12:38:45 UTC

I'm doing some MS PAINT work brb

2018-07-20 12:39:20 UTC

Lol why ms paint, if you going to be cheap, then at least get gimp

2018-07-20 12:39:30 UTC

quantum experiments have also confirmed that there is a group non material reality(holy spirit if you like) that generates our material reality in the same way that our immatterial thoughts generate our material electrical impulses in our brain https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/coming-to-grips-with-the-implications-of-quantum-mechanics/

2018-07-20 12:39:50 UTC

thanks guys 😃 I enjoy chatting about this stuff

2018-07-20 12:41:01 UTC

@Sheamus looool

2018-07-20 12:41:39 UTC

You are always welcome here bud, i like both of your company so far, both of you are very engaging intellectuals. It's a relief from the emotional drama found in other parts of the net.

2018-07-20 12:42:16 UTC

To be more precise, materialism and spirituality exist as opposite ends of the same scale. And in order to define spirituality, we must first define materialism.

2018-07-20 12:42:18 UTC

ja I think smaller groups are important, it's eternal september out there

2018-07-20 12:42:38 UTC

good question, what is materialism?

2018-07-20 12:43:36 UTC

We are born into the material world right?

2018-07-20 12:44:21 UTC

I don't understand it, I always think that after I die I'll get to go through a library of life videos and watch my life and I always think, that's why it's not supposed to be easy, and why it would be horrible to be a prince for example(you'd have to do so much more to have a video worth watching)

2018-07-20 12:44:42 UTC

you want a story with challenge overcome

2018-07-20 12:45:02 UTC

Anything you can quantify , or see, or touch. Even your children. EVERYTHING that exists outside of the conscious mind is a materialist attachment.

2018-07-20 12:45:06 UTC

Well if you define the one, the other is defined naturally. So we can discuss either materialism or spirituality

2018-07-20 12:45:35 UTC

although, now writing that I'm thinking what if it's a library of video games, and what if we're already there playing one now 💥

2018-07-20 12:45:56 UTC

We love rugby? How can you love rugby if you can also love a woman? Therefore materialism is also everything we do.

2018-07-20 12:46:35 UTC

Lol after chowing down on 🍄 i have likened it to a VR like experience honestly

2018-07-20 12:46:38 UTC

so does that mean that other entities are all NPCs?

2018-07-20 12:47:17 UTC

or does the materialist believe themselves to be some sort of determanistic machine

2018-07-20 12:47:27 UTC

or am I just confused

2018-07-20 12:48:17 UTC

Yes, well those that are emotional are, they are subject to nature's will, biology at work, part of the system, where is intellectuals, are the players with avatars to have an experience

2018-07-20 12:48:50 UTC

😆

2018-07-20 12:49:05 UTC

so the materialist believes that only they and a few others potentially are conscious

2018-07-20 12:49:14 UTC

I've wondered that once or twice.....

2018-07-20 12:49:44 UTC

Ever noticed how predictable the emotional heathens are? Like badly programmed AI

2018-07-20 12:49:53 UTC

it's crazy

2018-07-20 12:50:04 UTC

The problem today is @rob , everyone believes themselves to be somewhat spiritual, but no one can even define the word.

2018-07-20 12:50:11 UTC

friends that I know are intelligent are brainwashed

2018-07-20 12:50:48 UTC

Flat earth makes sense in a matrix lol, majority of games use that model of you've opened a map from an editor.

2018-07-20 12:50:53 UTC

they are often materialistic in their spirituality, it is something outside to display for status(much like our SJWs)

2018-07-20 12:52:12 UTC

I suppose that's why jesus was all about praying in secret

2018-07-20 12:52:19 UTC

So... physical things from the material world can not exist in the spiritual world right? Because it's the opposite end of the scale. Therefore, the names and concept of things of the material can not logically exist there.

2018-07-20 12:52:28 UTC

And intelligence is not the same as intellect.

2018-07-20 12:52:30 UTC

I sound like such a bible basher 😆

2018-07-20 12:53:47 UTC

That's why it is said that God loves everyone equally. Because God literally can not differentiate between people and things. By definition.

2018-07-20 12:53:54 UTC

Not at all really to be honest, you aren't substituting a reason with an offence.

2018-07-20 12:54:24 UTC

I think the vedic view is that there isn't a separation between sprit and thing, the spirit generates the thing from what I understand. but scientists have tried to pinpoint the thing, only to find smaller things ad infintum (eventually they will realise that they are willing smaller and smaller particles into existence)

2018-07-20 12:56:07 UTC

nice

2018-07-20 12:56:09 UTC

there is no thing until a consciousness gives it its thingness - a rock is not a rock until a conscience separates it from being 'ground' or 'mountain' or 'planet earth' or the entirety of reality

2018-07-20 12:56:46 UTC

Yes, so we can agree then on the golden rule? Love thy neighbour as thy own self, or This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.

2018-07-20 12:56:48 UTC

beatrice.com/TAO.txt

The Tao Te Ching a modern interpretation of Lao Tzu perpetrated by Ron Hogan

2018-07-20 12:57:30 UTC

lol

2018-07-20 12:57:31 UTC

nice

2018-07-20 12:57:40 UTC

That's the first non-fiction book I've read in 20 years. 2 Months ago I think.

2018-07-20 12:58:35 UTC

@Sheamus I think the golden rule is true if you think about it for any amount of time, but what if there are other people with a different spiritual makeup that appear human ?

2018-07-20 12:59:13 UTC

I've started doing audiobooks, highly recommended, less effort than reading and you can speed up speech to around the same speed as reading

2018-07-20 12:59:33 UTC

Yes, i just need to confirm if we agree to it, so we can agree to measure one another argument by it. 🙂

2018-07-20 12:59:46 UTC

also in light of 'journalism' nowadays and the propoganda in movies, books are still good

2018-07-20 13:00:26 UTC

Yeah started listening to audio books too, actually wasn't to start finding some good quality sources.

2018-07-20 13:00:55 UTC

Personally I'd rather get the right answer than pick a winner.

2018-07-20 13:01:04 UTC

But lets do it.

2018-07-20 13:01:26 UTC

Agreed, I'm so happy to know I'm not the only one to notice the propaganda.. It's shameless how open they are about it even.

2018-07-20 13:02:32 UTC

Wait, what about a winner now? Everyone must be a winner if we agree on the golden rule, that's the point for me to suggest using that as a measure.

2018-07-20 13:02:32 UTC

my friends annoy me the most, with their reasoning "but rob, you _can't_ say _that_"

2018-07-20 13:03:13 UTC

You can't say that lol... Yet you said it and proved them wrong.. The ignorance lol

2018-07-20 13:03:37 UTC

giving the other debater benefit of the boubt in a debate instead of picking at semantics is an example of why the golden rule just makes things smoother

2018-07-20 13:04:24 UTC

Yes, but this isn't a debate, it's us reasoning together

2018-07-20 13:04:51 UTC

Ok, you guys sound like seasoned debaters, so one of you please go first?

2018-07-20 13:05:05 UTC

Doing the whole logos thing, the relationship of brotherhood

2018-07-20 13:05:16 UTC

just noticing where the golden rule helps society. ebay by all acounts should have lasted a week, people pay, people run away with the money, but it didn't people trusted each other.

2018-07-20 13:06:16 UTC

quite a few times I run into the idea that morality doesn't need a religious basis, or it does - what are your thoughts on that one?

2018-07-20 13:07:06 UTC

Yeah agreed, golden rule is the only rule you need. Confucias had it nicely set for societal approach. Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.

2018-07-20 13:09:19 UTC

DeeJay you agree to the golden rule as the ideal way to define what's reasonable?

2018-07-20 13:09:27 UTC

where does that put us with psychopaths?

2018-07-20 13:10:00 UTC

and bipolar women (ducks)

2018-07-20 13:10:16 UTC

Ah that's a discussion on solutions... We should maybe try get a room going for that where we can reason on solutions to our problems

2018-07-20 13:10:46 UTC

@rob Get rid of sanctity.
People will understand the truth
and be happier.

Get rid of morality.
People will respect each other
and do what's right.

Get rid of value and profit.
People will not steal
if they do not desire.

If that's not possible, go to Plan B:
Be simple. Be real.
Do your work as best you can.
Don't think about what you get for it.
Stay focused. Get rid of all your crap.

2018-07-20 13:10:53 UTC

~Lao Tzu

2018-07-20 13:11:59 UTC

Lol traditional and a modern update to it

2018-07-20 13:12:10 UTC

you see I think the verse here "Get rid of value and profit.
People will not steal
if they do not desire."

2018-07-20 13:12:14 UTC

is so true

2018-07-20 13:12:30 UTC

and the communists also believe it

2018-07-20 13:12:41 UTC

but they come from a mindset of scarcity

2018-07-20 13:13:10 UTC

And that scarcity mind set is a huge problem

2018-07-20 13:13:16 UTC

I disagree with some of that though, value is needed... But it probably refers to material value.

2018-07-20 13:13:35 UTC

whereas i see us producing so much 'stuff'(tools) that is good enough for purpose. I think in terms of value created using tools

2018-07-20 13:13:42 UTC

Value is only needed in a materialist world.

2018-07-20 13:14:17 UTC

Exactly, there's value that's needed... It's not material though. Which was my point

2018-07-20 13:14:25 UTC

I commented on EWC that the communists mustn't be shocked if no one stays to hear them play once they've stolen all the instruments from the orchestra

2018-07-20 13:14:54 UTC

I have tons of computers but I can't give my knowledge to my domestic worker

2018-07-20 13:14:58 UTC

No, you value good as opposed to evil don't you?

2018-07-20 13:15:05 UTC

so just giving 'stuff' has limited utility

2018-07-20 13:15:32 UTC

what I'm saying is the only value is really the creative value

2018-07-20 13:15:46 UTC

To be spiritual, and to become the definition of spirituality, you have to reject the material world. Not just through fasting. You actually, literally have to start getting rid of your shit. We do not get possessed by demons, we are possessed by our own possessions.

2018-07-20 13:17:10 UTC

Your mind keeps track of every single penny you have. Every single thing you say and do. Everything you own. And how much you value it.

2018-07-20 13:17:29 UTC

we have what we need(tool wise), the only things of value are not available on the market. Going back to the afterlife video library, you can't buy a video of Mozart without putting in the effort.

2018-07-20 13:17:29 UTC

Ditsem! @rob, you just advanced to level 6!

2018-07-20 13:17:54 UTC

Yeah but I'll have to bring up last nights argument again on ideology. These are all ideas, and ideas aren't inherently bad, you can't say you have NO IDEA what truth or reason is. You need an idea, and serving an idea you know to be good is not the same as being deceptively enslaved by an idea that's bad.

2018-07-20 13:18:20 UTC

hmm, serving an idea is a really interesting point

2018-07-20 13:18:35 UTC

have you guys read Crichton's critique on environmentalism?

2018-07-20 13:18:43 UTC

When you start letting go of the material world - by eating less and doing less - your mind will start waking up.

2018-07-20 13:19:05 UTC

I fast two to four days a week.

2018-07-20 13:20:21 UTC

Why not just fast intermittently, you still get into ketosis that way and it's much more reasonable since it offers more consistency, as opposed to the chaotic interruptions you cause your body with the heavy start and stop

2018-07-20 13:20:23 UTC

There is a scientifically-provable entirely physiological process that starts when you start fasting.

2018-07-20 13:21:38 UTC

Imagine the human mind is like a giant one million port Gigabit Network Switch.

2018-07-20 13:22:04 UTC

Every cent you have have takes up a port.

2018-07-20 13:22:34 UTC

Every single thing you own is plugged in.

2018-07-20 13:22:58 UTC

Even your next planned holiday is taking up a few ports already.

2018-07-20 13:23:25 UTC

I agree with you @Deejay from Earth but I also like the idea I read in The Eternities - Vedanta Treatise (A.Parthasarathy) - basically that there is a certain hygeine required for science, so we see scientists in clean laboratories practicing science, similarly sages need to undergo a cleaning process, but regular people can use the lessons learned by scientists in labs that they never see - in fact it is natural. He says that spiritual lessons are also for the non sages to use, even though they might only be discovered by sages

2018-07-20 13:23:58 UTC

My battery is almost kaput, still haven't all agreed on how we define what's reasonable. Rob you are on board with the golden rule yeah? And what about you Deejay?

2018-07-20 13:24:31 UTC

If you're going @Sheamus I'd like to leave with one last thought/post

2018-07-20 13:24:58 UTC

What I'm trying to say is, when you start unplugging from the material world, and if you fast diligently, you start going to the kingdom of God.

2018-07-20 13:25:49 UTC

In my view, the Kingdom of God is the same place as the spiritual place where we get our answers from.

2018-07-20 13:25:51 UTC

Yes i know that... You trying to convince me?

2018-07-20 13:26:06 UTC

going to copy the text if you guys don't mind, could find it easily online, the Crichton critique on environment, I think that all true religion fills the space within all humans with a personal god, and I believe that all of the SJW/neomarxists/ideologists try to fill the exact same spot with ideology

2018-07-20 13:27:06 UTC

Agreed with that too on the spiritual realm. As above, so below, as within, so without. Inside and all around us, omniscient and omnipotent

2018-07-20 13:27:52 UTC

It's very real. Jesus did it. Lao Tzu did it. I think Bruce Lee as well - that physique is because of fasting as well. Zen and Jesus is the same thing

2018-07-20 13:28:04 UTC

@Deejay from Earth I think the was we are evolving, eventually we will all have the choice to seek enlightenment and plug into the spirtual internet much like we have the ability to learn science and 3d print devices/build software/CRISPr

2018-07-20 13:28:35 UTC

It's a higher state of consciousness. And the Kingdom of God really does live inside of us.

2018-07-20 13:29:29 UTC

coming back to the critique on environmentalism, I think that the Neomarxists are trying to block our connection to the kingdom within, by putting an ideology in its place

2018-07-20 13:30:18 UTC

It's being blocked yes absolutely.

2018-07-20 13:30:18 UTC

Ditsem! @Deejay from Earth, you just advanced to level 8!

2018-07-20 13:30:35 UTC

By keeping us busy, unhealthy and poor.

2018-07-20 13:31:02 UTC

That's why they have to teach us a load of shit in school.

2018-07-20 13:31:09 UTC

Yes, actually funny, I saw some videos on that with Putin comparing communism with Christianity, trying to mimic it in a reversed way.

2018-07-20 13:31:52 UTC

Like I said yesterday, you don't teach your slaves how to make guns. You make them as stupid as humanly possible.

2018-07-20 13:32:24 UTC

communism is a highly sophisticated spiritual warfare weapon

2018-07-20 13:32:36 UTC

Indeed it is yeah, agreed.

2018-07-20 13:34:48 UTC

That is why I think that if we are going to get out of this shithole we dug for ourselves, we need to fix the people before we can even start thinking about new ideologies.

2018-07-20 13:35:08 UTC

I think we need to reach people on the spiritual level

2018-07-20 13:35:26 UTC

I've seen intelligent friends brainwashed, it's sad

2018-07-20 13:35:58 UTC

but the spiritual needs to be shown to people in ways that they can understand

2018-07-20 13:36:17 UTC

We all need to start fasting, and awaken to our true nature.

2018-07-20 13:36:38 UTC

in vedantas book they say the different yogas were ways for different natured people to acheive enlightenment

2018-07-20 13:37:02 UTC

so intellectuals need to be shown it intellectually

2018-07-20 13:37:14 UTC

and emotional people need to be shown truth emotionally

2018-07-20 13:37:51 UTC

in my mind science has explained religion and they align perfectly, the people that disagree are humanities students

2018-07-20 13:38:31 UTC

spiritual people need to know god directly like you are advocating @Deejay from Earth

2018-07-20 13:38:33 UTC

DeeJay, you are saying we should do nothing, fast and be lazy, unlearn what we've learnt, ideas are bad.... But then you go on to propagate ideas none the less, aren't you?

2018-07-20 13:39:13 UTC

but some people in our societies are shamans and some are musicians and some are inventors and they all express god through their attention

2018-07-20 13:40:00 UTC

Yes and they all participate in the material realm.

2018-07-20 13:40:08 UTC

I think that the mass of communists in south africa still have gogos that pay funeral cover for a big funeral because they believe in god

2018-07-20 13:40:20 UTC

and I think that's the angle that needs to be worked in south africa

2018-07-20 13:41:10 UTC

Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.

2018-07-20 13:41:19 UTC

@Sheamus The lazy, unkept and disorganized people are always the spiritual ones.

2018-07-20 13:41:22 UTC

it is critical that we evolve spiritually

2018-07-20 13:42:50 UTC

different types of people exist, some are messy, some are organised, some talk to god at night, some don't but we all have the potential to speak to god. Our purpose though is to live the life god intended, not to escape it.

2018-07-20 13:43:09 UTC

Lol it does evolve into many different branches

2018-07-20 13:43:09 UTC

Ditsem! @Sheamus, you just advanced to level 7!

2018-07-20 13:44:30 UTC

Yes, agreed.. Measured by the Golden rule, very reasonable to agree with that. To serve a will greater than our selfish desires.

2018-07-20 13:45:25 UTC

The bhagavad gita starts with Arjuna(a great warrior) facing an army of his cousins and starting to wonder whether all the bloodshed is worth it... Krishna (his friend) arrives, reveals his true identity as Krishna and explains that Arjuna is a great warrior and that he _must_ fight and then proceeds to explain the nature of reality to Arjuna

2018-07-20 13:49:16 UTC

Picture if you will the Wise Man of the idyllic small village in the mountains. What is the role of the holy man of the village? Obviously he is the spiritual leader. He is also the political adviser to the Chief. He is also the engineer and the doctor. He is also the medicine man. So in my view, Spirituality is knowledge as well the ability to think and reason logically and critically. To have the answers. And isn't that what people want from their God, answers? Spiritual people live for helping others, materialist people live only for themselves. The spiritual man understands the nature of his reality as well as his place in it. And this ability is meant for everyone. It's natural and physiological. Not ideological.

2018-07-20 13:51:12 UTC

@Deejay from Earth interesting, I like the idea of the Renaissance man being able to do a bit of everything, and certainly today you can be quite a prolific tinkerer in the material realm in mainstream society

2018-07-20 13:51:23 UTC

Lol all of that can only be understood by ideas... Why do you oppose using a reasonable definition for ideology, why do you insist using your definition that vilifies it? Where is this prejudice rooted?

2018-07-20 13:51:51 UTC

I think we're tripping over words here

2018-07-20 13:51:57 UTC

A three day fast is what Easter is actually about. Your old immune system dies and is born again.

2018-07-20 13:52:35 UTC

I think ideas and ideology are different

2018-07-20 13:52:47 UTC

I think ideology is the worship of ideas

2018-07-20 13:52:48 UTC

Elaborate

2018-07-20 13:53:06 UTC

so you have an ideology

2018-07-20 13:53:14 UTC

that is the idea that you worship

2018-07-20 13:53:15 UTC

It's a collection of ideas, axioms and maxims, principles.

2018-07-20 13:53:25 UTC

like capitalism, etc

2018-07-20 13:53:38 UTC

so in the outside world it is fine

2018-07-20 13:53:49 UTC

there are loads of ideologies

2018-07-20 13:54:26 UTC

but in the spiritual world it isn't fine to subscribe to any ideology that doesn't put a personal connection between you and god

2018-07-20 13:56:28 UTC

Yes and ideology shapes your perception right? Influences your choices and the way you understand and interact with the material world. It's a collection of ideas that shape your understanding. Religion is probably the better term to define the worshipping of an idea.

2018-07-20 13:57:20 UTC

so if you 'believe' in social justice you put the cause of social justice in your heart, if you 'believe' in capitalism you put money in your heart

2018-07-20 13:57:32 UTC

and you always try to accumulate more of that

2018-07-20 13:58:25 UTC

but the point of the major religions was working out that actually you have this port in your heart to the source of all creation and that is the only thing worth going there

2018-07-20 13:58:28 UTC

Yes, those ideas you prefer, form your ideological perception of the world and w what you value.

2018-07-20 13:59:42 UTC

read the Crichton PDF "Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is
environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for
urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs.
If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect
21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature,
there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating
from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a
judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die,
unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability
is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its
communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right
beliefs, imbibe." consider how these hardwired biological slots get filled by ideology

2018-07-20 14:01:44 UTC

Same story being repeated in a fresh perspective... The present rhymes like that with history.

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