@rob Get rid of sanctity.
People will understand the truth
and be happier.

Get rid of morality.
People will respect each other
and do what's right.

Get rid of value and profit.
People will not steal
if they do not desire.

If that's not possible, go to Plan B:
Be simple. Be real.
Do your work as best you can.
Don't think about what you get for it.
Stay focused. Get rid of all your crap.

~Lao Tzu

Lol traditional and a modern update to it

you see I think the verse here "Get rid of value and profit.
People will not steal
if they do not desire."

is so true

and the communists also believe it

but they come from a mindset of scarcity

And that scarcity mind set is a huge problem

I disagree with some of that though, value is needed... But it probably refers to material value.

whereas i see us producing so much 'stuff'(tools) that is good enough for purpose. I think in terms of value created using tools

Value is only needed in a materialist world.

Exactly, there's value that's needed... It's not material though. Which was my point

I commented on EWC that the communists mustn't be shocked if no one stays to hear them play once they've stolen all the instruments from the orchestra

I have tons of computers but I can't give my knowledge to my domestic worker

No, you value good as opposed to evil don't you?

so just giving 'stuff' has limited utility

what I'm saying is the only value is really the creative value

To be spiritual, and to become the definition of spirituality, you have to reject the material world. Not just through fasting. You actually, literally have to start getting rid of your shit. We do not get possessed by demons, we are possessed by our own possessions.

Your mind keeps track of every single penny you have. Every single thing you say and do. Everything you own. And how much you value it.

we have what we need(tool wise), the only things of value are not available on the market. Going back to the afterlife video library, you can't buy a video of Mozart without putting in the effort.

Ditsem! @rob, you just advanced to level 6!

Yeah but I'll have to bring up last nights argument again on ideology. These are all ideas, and ideas aren't inherently bad, you can't say you have NO IDEA what truth or reason is. You need an idea, and serving an idea you know to be good is not the same as being deceptively enslaved by an idea that's bad.

hmm, serving an idea is a really interesting point

have you guys read Crichton's critique on environmentalism?

When you start letting go of the material world - by eating less and doing less - your mind will start waking up.

I fast two to four days a week.

Why not just fast intermittently, you still get into ketosis that way and it's much more reasonable since it offers more consistency, as opposed to the chaotic interruptions you cause your body with the heavy start and stop

There is a scientifically-provable entirely physiological process that starts when you start fasting.

Imagine the human mind is like a giant one million port Gigabit Network Switch.

Every cent you have have takes up a port.

Every single thing you own is plugged in.

Even your next planned holiday is taking up a few ports already.

I agree with you @Deejay from Earth but I also like the idea I read in The Eternities - Vedanta Treatise (A.Parthasarathy) - basically that there is a certain hygeine required for science, so we see scientists in clean laboratories practicing science, similarly sages need to undergo a cleaning process, but regular people can use the lessons learned by scientists in labs that they never see - in fact it is natural. He says that spiritual lessons are also for the non sages to use, even though they might only be discovered by sages

My battery is almost kaput, still haven't all agreed on how we define what's reasonable. Rob you are on board with the golden rule yeah? And what about you Deejay?

If you're going @Sheamus I'd like to leave with one last thought/post

What I'm trying to say is, when you start unplugging from the material world, and if you fast diligently, you start going to the kingdom of God.

In my view, the Kingdom of God is the same place as the spiritual place where we get our answers from.

Yes i know that... You trying to convince me?

going to copy the text if you guys don't mind, could find it easily online, the Crichton critique on environment, I think that all true religion fills the space within all humans with a personal god, and I believe that all of the SJW/neomarxists/ideologists try to fill the exact same spot with ideology

Agreed with that too on the spiritual realm. As above, so below, as within, so without. Inside and all around us, omniscient and omnipotent

It's very real. Jesus did it. Lao Tzu did it. I think Bruce Lee as well - that physique is because of fasting as well. Zen and Jesus is the same thing

@Deejay from Earth I think the was we are evolving, eventually we will all have the choice to seek enlightenment and plug into the spirtual internet much like we have the ability to learn science and 3d print devices/build software/CRISPr

It's a higher state of consciousness. And the Kingdom of God really does live inside of us.

coming back to the critique on environmentalism, I think that the Neomarxists are trying to block our connection to the kingdom within, by putting an ideology in its place

It's being blocked yes absolutely.

Ditsem! @Deejay from Earth, you just advanced to level 8!

By keeping us busy, unhealthy and poor.

That's why they have to teach us a load of shit in school.

Yes, actually funny, I saw some videos on that with Putin comparing communism with Christianity, trying to mimic it in a reversed way.

http://dizerega.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Michael-Crichton-Critique-.pdf

Like I said yesterday, you don't teach your slaves how to make guns. You make them as stupid as humanly possible.

communism is a highly sophisticated spiritual warfare weapon

Indeed it is yeah, agreed.

That is why I think that if we are going to get out of this shithole we dug for ourselves, we need to fix the people before we can even start thinking about new ideologies.

I think we need to reach people on the spiritual level

I've seen intelligent friends brainwashed, it's sad

but the spiritual needs to be shown to people in ways that they can understand

We all need to start fasting, and awaken to our true nature.

in vedantas book they say the different yogas were ways for different natured people to acheive enlightenment

so intellectuals need to be shown it intellectually

and emotional people need to be shown truth emotionally

in my mind science has explained religion and they align perfectly, the people that disagree are humanities students

spiritual people need to know god directly like you are advocating @Deejay from Earth

DeeJay, you are saying we should do nothing, fast and be lazy, unlearn what we've learnt, ideas are bad.... But then you go on to propagate ideas none the less, aren't you?

but some people in our societies are shamans and some are musicians and some are inventors and they all express god through their attention

Yes and they all participate in the material realm.

I think that the mass of communists in south africa still have gogos that pay funeral cover for a big funeral because they believe in god

and I think that's the angle that needs to be worked in south africa

Before enlightenment: chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment: chop wood, carry water.

@Sheamus The lazy, unkept and disorganized people are always the spiritual ones.

it is critical that we evolve spiritually

different types of people exist, some are messy, some are organised, some talk to god at night, some don't but we all have the potential to speak to god. Our purpose though is to live the life god intended, not to escape it.

Lol it does evolve into many different branches

Ditsem! @Sheamus, you just advanced to level 7!

Yes, agreed.. Measured by the Golden rule, very reasonable to agree with that. To serve a will greater than our selfish desires.

The bhagavad gita starts with Arjuna(a great warrior) facing an army of his cousins and starting to wonder whether all the bloodshed is worth it... Krishna (his friend) arrives, reveals his true identity as Krishna and explains that Arjuna is a great warrior and that he _must_ fight and then proceeds to explain the nature of reality to Arjuna

Picture if you will the Wise Man of the idyllic small village in the mountains. What is the role of the holy man of the village? Obviously he is the spiritual leader. He is also the political adviser to the Chief. He is also the engineer and the doctor. He is also the medicine man. So in my view, Spirituality is knowledge as well the ability to think and reason logically and critically. To have the answers. And isn't that what people want from their God, answers? Spiritual people live for helping others, materialist people live only for themselves. The spiritual man understands the nature of his reality as well as his place in it. And this ability is meant for everyone. It's natural and physiological. Not ideological.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/fasting-for-three-days-can-regenerate-entire-immune-system-study/

@Deejay from Earth interesting, I like the idea of the Renaissance man being able to do a bit of everything, and certainly today you can be quite a prolific tinkerer in the material realm in mainstream society

Lol all of that can only be understood by ideas... Why do you oppose using a reasonable definition for ideology, why do you insist using your definition that vilifies it? Where is this prejudice rooted?

I think we're tripping over words here

A three day fast is what Easter is actually about. Your old immune system dies and is born again.

I think ideas and ideology are different

I think ideology is the worship of ideas

Elaborate

so you have an ideology

that is the idea that you worship

It's a collection of ideas, axioms and maxims, principles.

like capitalism, etc

https://idmprogram.com/fasting-cures-diabetes-t2d-4/

so in the outside world it is fine

there are loads of ideologies

but in the spiritual world it isn't fine to subscribe to any ideology that doesn't put a personal connection between you and god

Yes and ideology shapes your perception right? Influences your choices and the way you understand and interact with the material world. It's a collection of ideas that shape your understanding. Religion is probably the better term to define the worshipping of an idea.

so if you 'believe' in social justice you put the cause of social justice in your heart, if you 'believe' in capitalism you put money in your heart

and you always try to accumulate more of that

but the point of the major religions was working out that actually you have this port in your heart to the source of all creation and that is the only thing worth going there

Yes, those ideas you prefer, form your ideological perception of the world and w what you value.

read the Crichton PDF "Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is
environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for
urban atheists. Why do I say it's a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs.
If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect
21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
There's an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature,
there's a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating
from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a
judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die,
unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability
is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its
communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right
beliefs, imbibe." consider how these hardwired biological slots get filled by ideology

Same story being repeated in a fresh perspective... The present rhymes like that with history.