advanced beyond mortal man

utopian, actualy

Queensland is trying as long as possible not to make it illegal for teachers to beat students in schools

for some reason

well, I have to agree with them...

some students deserves some hard, rough reality slaps

true, but do you really want to leave the deciding of who needs a slap to the teacher?

figuratively, and literally

it shouldnt be teachers job to dop punishments

should be parents

fix homes first :DDD

I'd have been beaten multiple times in school just because I don't buy into bullshit someone is feeding me with a hardon for their arbitrary authority the think they are entitled to as a teacher

well, it was a common thing back in the days, and when I see the generation of my parent, at least they have respect

newer generations are really far from the generation of our parents, or at least mines

respect should be socialized by good prior generation

this generation had bad parents

well, I mean, people in their 60s now are much more respectful than any 15-20s will probably ever be ^^"

and corporal punishement was a thing in their days

The concept of respect being a societal entitlement is stupid, especially the way it was ingrained into some of the older generations. People are not entitled to my respect, you earn my respect. Respect should not be given to everyone, and should especially not be expected from people just because you hold some arbitrary seniority over them.

they respected authority and when they defied it, they were punished, they knew that before hand, nowadays, kids do whatever they want and do not fear any form of authority

I think respect is necessity for stable society

Thats just bullshit

every generation has differences, but every single generation that has ever existed has complained about the changes brought by the younger

this is not some new thing, complaining about young people

That's absolutely true

I think you have it backward chaos... respect should be a given to anybody, but if somebody do something to make you lose your respect in them, that's another story

See that depends on the type of respect you are asking for

I think the word is used wrongly in many contexts

like, normal, proper respect, common courtesy

things that the younger generation lack the most

and the type of respect that old conservative generations are asking for is an admiration of their seniority and an higher evaluation of their decisions based simply on that fact

not that of common courtesy

a better word for what you are talking about is simply "consideration for others" or "empathy"

not respect

well, for the most part, they worked their ass off all their life to raise their children, contributed to society like you are nothing close yet, senior deserve respect

no they don't

that's bullshit

now as for their decision, that's another story

people do not deserve respect just because they lived their life

for purpose of stable productive society which preserves institutions, respect for older generations is necessary

imo it dont matter if deserved or not, just necessity for functioning goodness

being considerate of other people is a form of respect, empathy, that's something different

respect isn't limited to good consideration you have of other people, but it's still a good begining

yup

Also I think you are full of shit for thinking that the current younger generation has less consideration for others than any of the previous generations, what a load of shit. Where did you come up with that idea? At maximum it is possible for you to know and assess innacuratedly the personality and traits of about 200 people that you directly come in contact with. And you think you can make accurate statements about the temperament of an entire generation of people?

What a load of crap

I have 3500 students, where you 200 comes from ?

lol

You don't know them individiually

you can't make any assesment of them

for sure I don't know them individually, but their general behavior is really far from the way i've been educated

The number comes from studies that estimated the average amount of people that a person can come into contact with and actually "know" although that definiton is not objective

but it's really irrellavent on that point

Lots of studies done on generations rlooking at their politics and economics and what not

that's a simple statement regarding what I've seen, not a general truth

still, I tend to believe that the behavior of the young generation nowadays is really far from the behavior of my parents and the people of their generation

What you've seen means nothing, you are making a statement of what you feel is the case, not what you have any ability to determine in any way. Basically your reason for believing the current generation has a certain temperament is purely anecdotal and illogical.

anecdotal, true, illogical, how so ?

this is being reduced to absurdity

after a certain number of anecdots, you can determine a general tendancy, how is that illogical ?

does that respresent every single people of the said generation ? of course not...

does the tendancy is illogical ? I fail to see why ?

But that's exactly what you are saying, the current generation does not have x aspect. You are making a broad statement and assesment of a group that contains so many people in so many different contexts from their interactions with you from your personal experiance means nothing.

even if it did mean something there is still not reason to trustyour judgement

when you will visit a class of young students today (between 15 and 20y old, even till 20+), and see the behavior of the students in the 50-60s, you might be able to easily spot differences...

No you won't, objectively

it's not possible

the sample size is too small and specific

why not ?

sure, that's a sample, but you can repeat that ad infinitum

and see a tendancy

No you can't

because your students have demographic influences that both contribute to them ending up in your class and are a result of the context from which they come

ok, you can't

they will have extreme commonality between them

and even then

what argument can you provide that your judgement of them as individuals is sound even though your interaction with them is extremely limited

well as a teacher, I didn't see only my own students, I've traveled 5500 miles, and that's not even talking of the numerous of university I've been visiting in my own country

but still, that's considered a sample, you're right

there are so many factors that contribute to your assesment of them as a group based on your day to day interactions being wrong that it is entirely nonsensical to make any assesment of them at all on such a basis.

even so, you can take any sample of any school in the 50-60s, and you will never see the behavior that i've seen

Based on what knowledge?

that is even more pulled out of your ass

yes, totally pulled of my ass

pictures, videos, teacher testimonies of that time

how many classrooms did you visit in the 1960s? I bet it's even less than the current day ones

I have plenties

I concur that there are differences between generations

But to say something like the current one has less consideration for others is a load of bullshit

It comes from no other place than your interpersonal biases

well, my personnal point of view has biases, of course

and I wish you could prove me wrong

but for now, I'm going to keep that opinion of mine because based on what i've seen, it's pretty much accurate

maybe those young student will surpise me someday

Towelie you're seem to forget that people from the 60s had different influential factors than the people from the 50s and while of course every generation has had their own sort of delinquents, they're not all that different, are you basing respect off of teenagers or adults?

sure nrg, but at that time, corporal punishement would keep those delinquents in check

that was the main discussion in the beginning

It's incredibly irrational, based on historical accounts every generation has expressed simialer sentiment as you are now about the younger generation at the time. The same thing you are saying now about the current generation an older generation was saying about the generation you praise. It's just blind conservative regressionism, if we followed your sentiments all the way down history then eventually we'd be back in the stone age.

no need to go back to the stone age, the main topic was corporal punishement in the begining

something that disapeared where I live and where I teached

and that was present for older generations

I think respect for what our elders accomplished, and their work ethic and values, help shaped us to be in the state we are now

and a clear changement in behavior appeared

it's not regressive, it helps

it might be totally unfounded, but I can see that the result isnt the same than what our old generations had

maybe not a changement in behavior, maybe it's just that those behavior aren't repressed anymore

still, the result is far from being similar

I'm not calling for blindless punishment like you were describing earlier chaos... but more like appropriate, due and rightful 10" hand's slap in the face of student that disrespect the whole class by acting like jerks

With corporal punishment you're not teaching anyone respect and every parent knows this, you're only teaching them to despise you more to the point they don't give a shit what you have to say or what goal they want you to have. Don't force shit down our throats just because of your arbitrary beliefs. Chaos literally provided an example of this. To say the disappearance of corporal punishment is a result of what you see in millennials today with lack of respect and a false sense of reality is delusional. If you want people to have respect you have to teach them respect.

now I have to pray for a student to do the job himself, and pretend I didn't see anything 😄

it's not the role of the teacher to teach respect, at least, not college teacher like me

You think i give a shit what you think towelie

Just kidding towelie

😄 I'm kidding

but sometimes, a good old recallling of authority wouldn't do much damage

you shouldn't have to do that, especially not for highschool and college students

but damn that would work

I've tried a lot of more leniant way to handle those kind of situation peacefully... like, telling them that they can go out, I won't mark them absent and the like

still, some disrespectful people prefer to stay and disturb every other student attending

@Null If we are talking about "due regard for the feelings, wishes, or rights of others." or a simialer definition of respect then what is important in my position is the nature of the "regard". If you said "everyone should have basic respect for everyone else" then a few issues arise. Firstly is the semantics behind what you consider basic respect: does the "respect" for that person extend to their opinions? Why should automatic regard for someones opinions be given? If the said opinion has relative value based on my own perspective then that is the only time it makes sense to "respect" it. You will for instance not respect the opinion of someone who believes that a certain race of people should be killed. Why then is there such a thing as a basic respect for all people if the ultimate consideration remains to be one made by you yourself? It is not possible to have this basic standard. If all you mean is that we should "consider" other people in our own actions then that I suppose is fine but still entirely situational. Why then if every aspect of consideration for others and "respect" based on relative perspectives is there the notion that there should be a basic respect? It makes no sense, even those who claim to give such a thing can not possibly do so. But My specific issue with giving respect was not this, but rather the nature of "regard" in the context of asking for respect. You see the type of regard that a teacher asks for from a student is one of superiority and authority. That type of respect holds that the lesser should regard the superiors feelings, wishes or rights of higher importance than their own. That is the type of respect that is asked for when referring to something like "respect your elders" it is saying to place them in higher esteem based on an arbitrary notion of superiority. That is what the type of respect that I do not think should be given just because.

🆙 | **Chaos leveled up!**

in those case... what would be a good way to handle that ?

chaos, there's difference in not respecting one's opinion and one's person...

respect should be a mutual thing for everybody

It's an example

Imho, it shouldn't be situational

That is impossible

as a teacher, I don't ask for a higher form of respect than what I give my students

But do they know that?

Respect is relative, thats the very nature of the word

I end up working my ass out for them, for my knowledge to be shared properly to them, I ask them to respect that and the other students that wants to learn, nothing much

by no mean I like playing cops with them, it's a waste of energy and time for me

And that is exactly the situational type of respect with reason that the students can either accept or disregard. The problem is with a base standard for aribitrary reasons such as seniority or age.

but that would be something that could assurely works for the other students that want to learn

of course they can accept that or disregard it, but by disregarding it, it doesn't just harm me and the other students, but themselves too

in the case of a proper and mutual respect, not situational, this issue disappear

you say that respect is relative and situational. That might be because not everybody is taught the same form of respect

if it was the case, it wouldn't be all that much relative

Opinions in my chat? I ain't having none of that

This isn't your chat

why do you feel the need to say that @nrg ?

poor venom is going to depress

just say "yes master", bow down, and shut your trap

❤

See this is my point, yes it harms them to disregard that, but that notion of "harm" is from your reference frame and that is not an objective frame. The only way that it is "correct" is if the regard is given as expected by choice of the student as then your frames line up, and it is only correct within the commonality of your frames, not objectively. And you may refer to respect given by both parties as "mutual" but it is not the same, by very nature of the difference of positions, the type of regard a student gives a teacher is systematically more than the teacher gives the student, this is not really necessarily bad from my or yours or most peoples point of view. Respect can never not be situational, because people can never not be individually distinct. You can never teach people a common respect as I said in the previous wall of text.

Well, objectively, it harm my moral, and the students' moral that are actually here to learn. It's not that subjective...

now you are just using the word objectively and ascribing it to a subjective notion and calling that a counter argument.

Objectively, you're all gay

How is that subjective ? I mean, some student want to learn, they don't want to lag behind and get down with their studies

And i'm lucky enough that it's actually the majority of my students that are like this nowadays

how come someone acting like a jerk and disturbing other student isn't objectively harming them in their studies ?

and as I said, I don't think they give me more respect than what I give them. They respect the knowledge I share to them and I respect their commitement.

I see no differences in degrees of that kind of respect

Because those very things are ascribed subjective value, studying, disturbance, acting like a jerk, all are subjectively qualitative notions.

well, people taking phone call during lectures, speaking between them loudly, etc might be qualitative notions, but in the class point of view, it's objectively a disturbance

I could for instance probably act like a jerk, disturb other students and also excell at my studies. And this all just turns into moral argumentation, which is just subjective also.

I agree with your notions of how students should act, but that does not make it objective.

well, you would still disturb other students... I fail to see how your grades are revelents in the fact that you act like a jerk ? 😄

My point is the nature of how you are ascribing value

I never said that they were bad students, with bad grades or whatnot

just that they lack proper respect considering the situation they are engaging in

my definition of what's objective and subjective might differs from yours as I fail to see how disturbing a course isn't objectively harming students that want to learn

Because harm itself is not objective

well as long as the course is slightly delayed because of those people actions, it's knowledge that isn't passed on

<:Tech_Good:284082952982233088> <:Tech_Morning:284082951229014017>

Most language isn't, or rather doesn't come close to objectivity, that is the nature of it. Our argument is becoming semantically regressive "language games" as wittgenstein coined the phrase.

can those student still get good grades, probably. Did they miss out on something, well... kinda

depending on the situation, they could get an exam that I didn't write myself but that respect the program, and some question in it could be regarding the missing things from my course that got delayed because of the people disturbing the class

would that still not be considered as harming then ?

I don't think I can adequately explain what I mean, but I also don't have any issue with the way that you seem to want to treat your students and the behaviour you expect from them and such. So ultimately I don't think it's necessary to have a semantical argument because I think the intention we both have is simialer even if differently expressed.

Whats happening

Nothing, fuck off

fucking kid

No

Lol

you kids have no respect

fuck off

Lmao

I hate you young fucks

No dad

Say sorry to your elder

No

Fine we'll just leave it up to corporal punishment 🔨

I've changed my mind

Miller has no idea of what corporal punishment is x)

Do you hate me chaos

Being reminded of the existance of @revolver schnozelot I say bring corporal punishment back

oh boy

@ya boi why? You aren't much younger than me are you?

See iwaz raight

we all lov each other here right ? <333

No

No

o oh

^

I agree with that vision

And this is why I need context

Nobody gives a shit about what you need

Fuck off

I tend to act like this, pretty much like the Talion Law in short

but with respect first

Oh kay

except for miller

Towelie Im not miller

because ginger don't deserve respect **QUACK**

Kirk said Im not miller

Because of the master cunt @Óglach Miller

who's that ?

don't know him

also, I never said you were miller

**QUACK**

But youve referred to me as miller twice

when ?

do you have proof that it was you I was referring to ?

Hey miller

Still being gay?

I swear... those gingers...

hey miller post violins pls thanx

Hitler didn't choose the right target for his Final Solution...

Miller has no idea of what corporal punishment is x)

except for miller

@ya boi oh so youre here again

No

yeah, when did I say it was _you_ ?

Oh so youre talking about the piss wizard

maybe ?

.magik

did you felt targeted when I talked about gingers ?

.magik

.wall

oh it looks I thought it wrote "Salope" for a second...

it means slut in french

<:kong:271536876970704897>

TF;DR

Good

Youre doing great thing towelie

who's Towelie ?

Yeah who the fuck is Towelie

I have never heard anybody called by that name round these here parts

Ahhhhhh my phone needs to go back to night shift mode

It burns! Ahhhhhhhhh!!!!

galaxy note 7 ?