just like C++ is just a superset of C

And Microsoft is making things more open source

C++ isnt a superset of C though

Any valid C code is valid C++ code, ergo C++ is a superset of C

It is

Not at all

Give me one line of code that would compile under C but not under C++

C++ doesn't allow most of the pointer casts involved with idiomatic C

Yes it does. It just has better syntax for those now, so people rarely use the old C pointer casts

No naming in struct initializers

You have to extern "C" all C headers to make sure symbols aren't mangled

I'm not well versed on struct initializers, so I can't speak to those

@Revan it doesn't, under the spec you can only up/downcast pointers

@ping But the compilers still have to support it

Wait, whys the convo on coding now?

Wasnt it electric cars before

Because we are actually qualified to talk about coding

@GingaBomber Because ping and I disagree on the definition of "<Language B> is a superset of <Language A>"

The compilers let you deviate from the specs but that doesn't really count as a language feature

Well I guess, but my expertise is only in C++ and C#

More C# now sincei ts easier to develop games in

i made a diagram awhile ago one sec

XNA still a thing? Haven't looked recently.

@Grenade123 I think I read about that a few years ago, but I don't remember the context

https://i.imgur.com/gTY9wYv.jpg

I mean, I have a book on it from a few years ago but it was when the xbox360 was still the main xbox, before the one

@ping Okay, I'll concede that you're probably right in that C++ isn't a *perfect* superset of C, but as far as most programmers are concerned, it's close enough as to not make a difference

@GingaBomber let me guess, unity? 😢

good when you want to work in small teams

and cant afford the assets to make full use of Unreal

i mean i'm on a 3 person team and unity was just completely awful

VR specifically

Cause no source control?

we dont even use the unreal source control features

unity is just so boilerplate heavy

among other things

well, I worked on unreal with a team

and I found that awful as well

And well. I didnt like the build times

Personally preference it seems.

I dabble in UE4 a bit. Not coding or blueprints though.

and it would often crash when making release builds

Unity's level editor is better

Unreal have the same release build option support?

But then, I also worked in Construct2 and Gamemaker, so shitty structure is not an issue for me

I dabbled in UE4 with a friend a few years ago, and it seemed bloated for what we were doing

Why you ask, uni course requirements

unreal has an excessive amount of build options

ugh

Ayy, good old construct and gamemaker

One of those didn't have a proper if statement or something similarly common if I remember

Think it was gamemaker.

It had an or condition, which was not the exact same

gamemaker had if

you just didnt need the brackets

but unity's UI system is absolute garbage (world space UIs are buggy as hell too),
shader development requires hopping to/from an external program and is a real pain in the ass
the animation system is inferior for basically every use case
building lightmaps is REALLY slow in unity, has very little tuning options, and looks inferior if you compare a well tuned unity scene with one from UE
unreal comes with automatic LODs, and has a pretty nice system of managing LODs directly from the static mesh
unreal comes with many options for generating collision meshes

i can go on

Or was it an else. Idk, it was like 7 years ago. It was missing something simple for continals. Or at least I couldn't figure it out in the less than a week I had to work with it

there are types of shaders unity straight up doesn't support

so it is actually severely limiting depending on what you are trying to do

What I'm getting from this is "There is no silver bullet [game engine] for game development"

i mean

Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/927/

literally the only thing unity has better than UE is docs and their level editor is slightly easier to use

everything else is just a pita

sounds kinda like mongodb 🤔

Doesn’t Unity have a better road tool?

one sec

good, the project im working on has no need of physics, lighting, or unique shaders

closest thing would be particles

unreal's particle systems are 10/10

What is unreal coding language, c++?

Yup

blueprints and C++

blueprints can be used for basically everything

also there are many scripting languages ported to UE

including C#

Blueprints are great because I can’t code. I can’t really blueprint either but that’s a different problem.

C++ is the go to language for game development

Meh, one of my main problems with c++ is that I feel like I spend more time setting up the project and telling the complier were everything is than I do coding. But maybe that is just visual studio being dumb.

i'm not sure how comprehensive they are since i'm fine with C++

Id argue that

well kinda

i am used to both

the way UE is set up is kinda like Qt

Qt has their own preprocessor which makes using it a bit easier

@Grenade123 Visual Studio is often dumb, but it is still the best C/C++ IDE I've used

I do love it's debugger but have had little opportunity to look around to see if there is anything better

The only alternative I know of for C/C++ is Eclipse, and I don't even use Eclipse for Java, which is what it was designed for

I suppose there's Xcode for macs, but I'm not an Apple fanboi, so I've never used it

But dear God visual studios. "Oh, you want to reference that other project? Please follow this launch squence for the space shuttle to set that up. Oh, and I'll still randomly not find it in the middle of your work day."

Maybe I didn't have problems with that because the only external projects I referenced were through NuGet

I wasn't talking about external projects, I was talking about two projects in one solution.

which, for some reason, I always read as "New Get" until just now when I realized I could read it as "nug(g)et"

Then again, the code base at work is a mess and more just thrown together over 30 years than actually designed.

But what do you expect from something coded on the back of a truck doing the thing the program is designed to support

Ah, the plight of working on a "mature" code base. You want to say it's good because it's "mature", but at the same time it's got so much cruft in it that you can't really say that and sleep well at night

CLion is good

Qt Creator if you want something lighter

At my first job after graduating there was a project they wrote nearly 15 years before I started there, and everybody was so afraid to touch the code for fear of breaking it that we never added features. At the same time, though, nobody was willing to write a new solution

Really, if it was as easy as it is in c# to reference things, and the intellicense was as good, I wouldn't mind c++ as much.

The main discernable feature of the project was an XML parser that took a configuration file and turned it into a query engine, but poorly

@Grenade123 it is, VC++ has GCed reference types

`void foo(std::string^ bar);`

I meant the actual set up. Once I've told visual studios that yes, I am not lying, there is C++ code there, I have not problem.

Then again, I haven't done much c++ work in visual studios that wasn't in vs10. It was 10 in college and then this code base at work is stuck with 3rd party stuff that only complies in 10.

oof

VS has always sucked hard when it comes to C++

they don't fully support c++14 yet iirc

Don't exactly like digging through the project settings to manually set the folder where the referenced code lives. Which then needs to be manually changed should you need to move it's physical location

I demand a video

Where Tim takes off his beanie.

There was a picture of him with no beanie.

Think it was in an ama on 4chan.

Is he hot?

@Dionara <#398973785426100234>

Why so much C talks..

Java master race!!

💢

Hehehe

Oh my god lol

He should just do what I do and shave his head

Seriously though. There's so many engines nowadays. For most kinds of indie games usin C is a waste of time

@.B so you use Java instead and get 10fps?

oh god my eyes

I code Payments and Security backend apps

Not games

people have actually made game engines in Swing

that's awful

@.B security backend? 🤔

Payday 2 was made in a racing game engine

payday 2 is a meme of a game

day 1 cheats

because they exposed all of lua's symbols which prevented LTO

and even to this day it's trivial to hook the vm, they don't even bother protecting it

C is versatile, but if the team is small and/or inexperienced. Using any random engine will produce better results

C is not versatile

Why bother with memory leaks and low level issues if you a making a simple FPS or RPG.. right?

@iceCalt Link Time Optimization

basically after your executable is glued together it performs additional optimizations such as inlining and tweaking register allocation

Guys , youre forgetting about the 2018 contendor Ruby on Rails

Beans

https://youtu.be/41y7L7BjDX0

Is this going to catch on???

@Howler4695 we talked about it somewhat earlier today in <#399319255386161152>

as for it catching on, maybe

it's hard for people that believe in individuality to make a collective push

That's stupid, individuality and collectivism aren't exclusive.

the issue is you get less leverage when you can't speak for a large group

sargon usually makes arguments for individual issues instead of assuming a blanket set of values over a large group

liberalists

Yeah if everyone believes in individual freedoms you can collectively push for it.

Without being too specific.

wow. duckduckgo needs some work

```Including results for redtube.
Search only for "dtube.com"?```

@iceCalt agreed. The idea that you cannot interact with people and be an individualists is ignorant. A group of people who respect each others opinions is not anti-individualist.

implying thats not what youre looking for ping

hah

Damn auto-correct

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dtube.com

check for yourself

It’s d.tube not dtube.

yeah not sure why it corrected that

im going to start using dtube for my second channel instead of youtube

its better to have an exteral platform as a backup

https://d.tube/#!/c/timcast

oh jees, their github is bare

They should try and distinguish their UI a little from Youtube's. It looks like a copy paste of Youtube's html page I would of done when I was kid.

it's definitely not a c+p of their html

New platforms need to distance themselves from YouTube if they want to succeed. Not become a near copy.

yeah the format is extremely similar

i just miss when you could upload full page channel templates

How does this money system work???

@Howler4695 https://steemit.com/faq.html#How_does_Steemit_work

Wait so I can take their revenue away by down-voting?

i like how tim is just permanantly in the admin vc

Tim is sitting in front of his computer 24/7 reading our shit.

well yeah, but he's still just sitting in vc muted and deafened

nah you can see when he's online

less than 2 hours today

*sarcasm

oh yeah, he's away rn

Hes always online, then again, he probably just leaves his pc on 24/7

Online as in, hes either online of afk

Hanging out in channel 2 autism chat

:D

@Naveronasis would join but i'm doing work rn

Bean stalk

playing fallout 4 on a CRT <3

😮

1280x720p letterbox mode at 90hz

since the stupid game requires an outdated mod to have the UI work in 4:3 or 5:4 >.<

DAMN BOI

i could get it running at a higher resolution but this monitor has a sync issue :/ its been abused over the years and no longer holds a steady image when pushed really hard :/

😮 😮 😮 😮

Ive been listening to this one band lately that normally isnt my thing but the way my friend introduced it to me was perfect XD

he said "well we no longer have to wonder what would happen if freeza decided he was tiered of getting his ass kicked by goku and started a metal band instead"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFEQNF-Lh-E

also their guitarist and drummer are like... insane.

normally its like "but thats just in the stuido they probly cant do that live"

https://youtu.be/0H-Qx3qQlw0?t=176

(if time code broke jump to 3 minutes)

The guitar/drum synchronization reminds me of Dragonforce, but I've listened to enough music that I'm not surprised they can pull this off live as well

idk most.... very fast bands... cant live. :/ dragon force has gone in and out of phases where they suck live even

though right now they seem to be on point

but for years they just couldnt keep it togather

Apparently early on Dragonforce sounded terrible because they didn't have monitors on the stage with them, so they couldn't hear what they sounded like

also they had a very bad habit of playing random bars between shows so they were constantly exhausted, and either wasted or hung over

like roll into town on monday for a friday/sat show... but show up unannounced with a van full of backup gear and play random local bars that would give them free beet monday-thursday

baar*

beer*

fml

The song starts out slow, and it never gets as fast as what you linked to, but this is Dream Theater performing "The Dance of Eternity" live https://youtu.be/8Ik9qECIWgc?t=18s

The song is notable for a few reasons: 1) there are 108 time signature changes, 2) there are several segments where different instruments are playing synchronized segments

i like the test pattern drums XD

the vektor band i linked their new albumn has been credited with possibly being the best or at least most technically accomplished thrash metal albumn of all time (neither song i linked is from it)

I'll have to check them out one of these days, the videos you linked intrigue me

this is the most popular song from the new albumn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEAsNxcIGKM

the whole albumn is on youtube officially from the lable

sadly they just broke up after that albumn... kinda

the lead guitarist/singer is still going to keep it going

but they took like 6 years to make that albumn and they all want to "relax"

Figures. That typically happens after a really good album.

XD

well their second albumn suffers hard from being alittle rushed and sanitized too hard in post

Damn, I was 5 seconds into LCD and I was already impressed

so they didnt want to make anything that they couldnt play live play well and or needed to be fixed up

so they basicly spend 6 years polishing and practicing XD

and i think they are just burned out

the first 4 songs of the first albumn "black future" are also super good... but the second half of the albumn isnt my cup of tea

That happened to the old drummer (and founder) of Dream Theater 3 albums ago. He wanted to take a break, everybody else was like "Nah, we're good recording more albums right now"

the only song on the new albumn i dont like is the first one

the second song is way better of an intro

but the songs tell a story

so they have to be in order :/

Oh, that doesn't bother me

not to say the first song is awful and shouldnt exist

I tend to listen to entire albums at once

yeah im just saying like... imo the first song on the new albumn is the worst one

imo

and the second song has an intro so legendary that i really wish it was first

like first 1 minute of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4e5Jw9T5Zk

VS

song 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpL3j8sCPAw

Hang on, I still have 3 minutes left of LCD

the first 2 minutes of song 2 may be the best intro ever

also LCD is song 3

and song 2 leads directly into it