Right so I'm talking about the "should"

If you want to talk about other things, make that clear instead of moving the goalposts

I never moved my goalpost

you just misread my argument and started debating that 😮

And if people argue that the gov should pay to maintain them all. It starts to become arguable why not abort all of them if we could

I didn't say "if he was your child"

we were talking about the right to abort your child

Yes, and I asked about the moral aspect, not legal

there is no moral aspect to abortion

I disagree with you there

No? So right up until birth you should be able to turn it into slurry?

There is, but Natural Selection is way more important imo

I never said that,

theres a difference between right/wrong and morality

No, morality is a value judgement of right and wrong

no its not

Then what is morality?

Morality is a personal compass to say "i find this acceptable" or not

I find abortion morally acceptable, but still wrong to just do whilley nillely

No, it's not basic acceptability

Muslims find it morally acceptable to rape women who dress provocatively

You can accept something but have it grate against your moral compass

Christians used to find it morally acceptable to kill unbelievers

Wasn't that against the teachings of Jesus?

the bible contradicts itself several times, i'm sure at some point in the book it is against it

You can think something is wrong (same as morally wrong) and still deem it acceptable

Fwiw "morality

NOUN

mass noun

1Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour."

So wouldn't it be argued that it wasn't moral for them to do so?

They just created their own morality.

They probably thought of it as if you don't follow Christianity then you are suffering and death would be the preferable option.

Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal. Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness".

@.B I don't see why eugenics would be a good moral standard tbh

its a body of standards

People decide what is right or wrong based on their own morals

Hence its subjective, so a person can not actively state what is right or wrong, because everyone has a different take on things

That is, again, not what you argued lol

yes it is 😮

its a personal system for what you find acceptable

No, you said there's a difference between morality and "right and wrong"

there is

There isn't, by definition

what you consider right and wrong, are different from my definitions

therefore, what you think is moral

I might not find it so

You're playing obtuse semantic games that just don't work

maybe i'm just explaining it poorly 😦

We're talking about what you find right and wrong

@Beemann it isnt. But as a species it makes sense. We already have too many aspects in our society where we increase the number of people that shouldn't be reproducing anyway and in other regular environments wouldn't survive.

And your justification for it

So if morality is subjective then can it be said that you can't argue if abortion is illegal since no one can be right or wrong about it?

yes

at best you can just not practice it yourself

@.B that sounds rather utilitarian, which I would argue produces rather reprehensible results

"Illegal" is very well defined though

Not necessarily

If legal matters were clear we would have fewer debates about the meaning of particular laws

legal matters are clear

The only issue we have is our morals making people want to impose theirs on others

So, in your opinion we should keep all malformed babies being born and adapt society to their needs?

because we don't share the same morals

Where did I say society should adapt to them?

isn't that bound to happen?

I don't accuse you of wanting to execute everyone with a learning disability

No

I'm not wanting, I just said parents should have a choice for that

And from a species point of view, it makes sense

You don't have to execute them, but they shouldn't get an equal share of the pie,
That in itself is counterproductive to the evolution of the human race

Bingo

From a species point of view abortion is a net negative

no its not

Some species kill the weak ones after they are born

You would just let natural selection take care of the maladapted

Sure

They know that even if they don't, the environment will

But you wouldn't a healthy child, and we do

Do you think abortion should be restricted to eugenics?

no

a healthy child can still lead a shitty life

holy fuck that was intense...

The problem with humans is that we ended "Natural Selection"

Okay but you're the one using natural selection, not me

Exactly

So don't use it and then retract it :)

I'm not retracting, I meant we need to balance it out due to the lack of it

with natural selection you wouldn't need abortion, the less-abled would die off themselves

You mean apply selectively

lol started a ranked game of league, 2 mins in some dynamite on my street goes off. i hear my mom flip out about something and think its jsut her normal stressin out

Right, that's what I'm saying

and the un-wanted would die off too 😉

then she askes me to get the shop vac, i go check outside and the fucking pane of glass on our table outside fucking shattered completely

right beside out in ground pool

If we're going back to natural selection to determine society's functions, abortion is redundant

exactly

So would you rather they get birthed and die
Or gut them early on so they don't have to suffer?

But it isn't redundant when you are willing to waste all resources needed to keep them alive

So under the natural selection argument, abortion is nonsensical, since you're reducing the number of potential offspring

You are reducing weak offspring

They'd be reduced anyway

and it would be free

And abortion is used on non weak offspring

Abortions aren't free

Starvation is

Under natural selection yes. Nowadays, no

i was talking about starvation

Right so we shouldn't adhere to natural selection, yes?

to an extent, i think we should