@Shitty Kitty I don't know how old you are, so I won't bag on you. Lol

I don't know, opinions are opinions but it seems unfair to Wilson that he got blamed for doing something right after other people did it wrong

not that Wilson was a great president

Nido what exactly do u mean by that

what did he do right after others did wrong?

Old enuf to know better and young enuf not to care...

I mean Wilson was the first president to pass an income tax bill after the 16th amendment made them constitutional

@NIDo and then it was amended and the Wilson signed it into law. Plus he just did a lot of other invasive political acts to expand government. Not a fan.

Wilson had some bad things go down. WW1 and the pandemic. Tough times.

but he wasn't the first to impose an income tax

@nido I mean it’s possible for us to agree on facts but have fundamental differences in how evaluate the facts.

@RobertGrulerEsq isn't congress in charge of Taxation? how is it fair to judge Wilson for what congress(the people) decided?

@NidoGod *

That's a fair question.

Lol you guys are asking a lot of guy to write a philosophical defense on a random question in a chat. 😂

we can post cat pictures if you want

@NidoGod more of a dog person

@Gypsy get off the internet, this is the cat's domain

I don’t know Robert’s position but in my ranking the worst presidents are going to be people who expanded the power of federal government when it wasn’t necessary for the government to protect public interest or its obligation to the public.

@NidoGod noted lol

@NidoGod With Wilson, I'm not a fan of his fiscal policies generally speaking but agree he was part of a major national conversation on the issues and was part of a wave. But he signed the new major tax policies into law and was responsible for enforcing them. He's generally credited with laying the foundation of the modern tax framework, which is what I don't like. So he gets the blame! And @Auto Presidents typically set the agendas and have the opportunity to veto unworthy bills.

fair enough

Still surprised noone said FDR thought everyone hated the boomers these days...

FDR on the list and also not a fan, due to his major expansions of government basically everywhere plus his attempt to pack the court.

@RobertGrulerEsq Wasn't there a dire need of new money flowing in at the time?

Also what do you thinka bout James Polk

@Auto Are you talking about the GD?

Except tycoons had Wilson's head over a barrel to implement the Federal Reserve. Greatest crime against Americans in our history and he had no choice. But for that, the rest would have been moot.

Gypsy wdym?

You are talking about new money, I interpreted this as monetary policy in response to the Depression?

nah but like

why would they implement a new tax

if there was no need for money

people would surely be against that

The need for money is inexhaustible.

So it’s not a good way to evaluate whether taxation is good or not lol

The need for money is inexhaustible because it's not a zero sum game, by design. Itnhas been that way since 1913.

we were still on the gold standard in the 30s

Economics is not a zero sum game regardless of any central bank.

Which is good

thinking i would be saying JFK if had gotten a chance to finish. You know the thing...

Because in zero sum games someone must lose for someone to win.

Losing the gold standard was a foregone conclusion when we created an inflationary economy.

@Zuluzeit yes I'd like to know what went down in the backrooms between Wilson and the power brokers.. @Auto such a big question!

I want a new James Polk

shamelessly conquer the world

plz

Lol

also do it in one term and then die right after

The gold standard was a physical, intrinsic reference for value.

Im saying this unironically

just tell Trump they took our Gold @Auto

@Zuluzeit I mean, I am open to criticism of the Fed but inflation has upsides and downsides. For example, inflation encourages people not to sit on their money. It also helps adjust prices because elasticity of prices varies. So instead of everyone getting pay decreases you get less pay increases. So if you are in favor or against it will come down to what you believe the very day citizen prioritizes. Because you and I can still purchase Gold to hedge against inflation. Also, the inflation numbers coming from the Fed are often suspect. Imo

The Fed is a racket.

@Zuluzeit anything can be a racket if it’s monopolized by the government and abused.

They jerk the leash whenever they need.

The Fed isn't monopolized by the government. It's privately owned. Even Trump couldn't do anything...and he tried, publicly.

@Zuluzeit I think you see nefariousness where it’s really incompetence. They have no financial incentive for bias. Their money is in a blind trust, where all public servants should have their money 😂

@Zuluzeit 👌 man 😂

I don't believe they get things wrong by accident. It's all orchestrated.

@Zuluzeit you’re misinterpreting what semi-private means in this context. Imo. It is financiers who take advantage of the incompetence of the Fed. Not an orchestrated attack on your pocket. And politician who help by expanding the mandate of the Fed to include unemployment and market performance.

Isnt the Fed Buying up stocks now or did i woosh something here?

Unemployment shouldn’t even be a government mandate let alone the feds.

They are, because they now have 3 mandates. And market performance is one of those mandates. Which is ridiculous to say the least.

The fed should only be concerned with money supply. It would be difficult to back to a gold standard. Cheap money drives out better money. If we tried it would be replaced by cryptocurrency or some other cheap money.

There is no safe lynch pin to pull.

government involvement has never "FIXed" anything think Regan said it best "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."

Tbh I'm still stuck on squaring control over value and having no incentive for bias.

It’s called moral hazard and one way to insulate against it is to have wealth stored in blind trusts.

Bias is inescapable

still scrambling to find the "Next Best Thing"

It doesn’t matter because even fans of the Fed have to be cautious now that Kashkari has said moral hazard isn’t an issue

I think this is going to be an interesting year 😂

Ok so they do have financial incentive for bias. That was the part of your argument that had me concerned.

Or explanation

No they have biases because they are people. They have no financial incentive other than a healthy economy.

That is inconceivable to me. Maybe I'm just slow.

But respectfully (to them) they are not the most competent people at understanding Macroeconomics. People who are at the top of macroeconomics are making huge amounts of money in finance.

Because all of their wealth is held in blind trusts. So if they favored one industry or sector over another they might inadvertently screw themselves.

But blindly enrich someone else. Got it.

Yeah, they could make someone rich. But they really don’t have that sort of attitude imo. The way Roberts sees himself protecting the institution of SCOTUS (I am not a lawyer I just gather this from all the lawyers I see talk) The Fed chairman and board want to protect the institution of the Fed. Plus it would be hard to get away with. If they favored someone competitors would probably be interested in uncovering corruption.

Unless it always eventually swings the direction of everyone with a stake and they accept it for overall gain.

Everyone with a stake is you and I and your grandma

I'm not sure it scales well but ok.

Everyone who doesn’t have a guaranteed state funded retirement will be getting their retirement from the market. Whether it’s equity or bonds etc. and social security is not a reliable retirement plan. money held by institutions is your money man.

Also state funded retirement is a scam on the tax payer. Please don’t screenshot.

Lol

One for you, ten for me and they are all worth half now...and on and on.

I already screenshotted and forwarded to the appropriate authorities. Don't answer your door.

😂 I just think it would be unpopular for me to say. I am not breaking any ethical codes of conduct.

Sedition. Heresy.

Or some such

Also there is massive deflation we don’t recognize. Mostly technological deflation. So I am just saying the issue could be more complex than the Fed is bad lol

Sedition probably looks good on my resume

Lol

My resume will be useless in a few years, hopefully, when I can move to Spain. Good talk.

@Zuluzeit Is your job being automated?

They can't automate my job unless there is some amazing ai involved. I'm pretty close to not needing it, though.

I have something that uber-wealthy people can never have: Enough.

@Zuluzeit That is called settling and becoming complacent. Being mediocre.