@GoldenPhoenix that argument still presupposes that there is right and wrong. You can’t prove that right and wrong exists with a materialistic worldview

gonna have to tell my gay friend he is destroying the west. along with dan from game grumps

LOL

you can't, but you can prove that there is a "I might be inconvenienced" vs "I will benefit"

but at least we can all agree china has the right idea when it comes to Muslims right? /s

Actually. Adultery and fornication are different...

Fornication is the Act of sex

Adultery is cheating on your spouse

Or simply sleeping around

fornication is sex without marriage, adultery is cheating

```gonna have to tell my gay friend he is destroying the west. along with dan from game grumps```
Not all gays are doing that but some are. And the real problem is that he or we let them do that shit.

@GoldenPhoenix still can’t extract that from a materialistic worldview

we should be on the streets and protest the parents of Desmond is Amazing

we let priests diddle kiddies too, your point?

Fornication is sex before being married. Adultery is having sex when you are married, but it's not your spouse.

You can fornicate without committing adultery, but you cannot commit adultery without fornication...

well all we know is and i qoute Rowan Atkinson : Fornicators line up infront of that small Guillotine over there

The reason for anti-homosexuality in religion was typically the case escpecially in the old times because mortalilty rates were a bitch, and maximizing offspring would help have many people in the religion for a stronger support network

Yeah

the plagues

wars

And they made observations on how baby-making works. They saw reproduction as the "right" way.

the flu

not to mention i'm sure pre modern medicine homosexuality has health problems

all these fucking health issues . average life was up to 34-45 in most areas

in fact, i would see any anal as being viewed as taboo

```The reason for anti-homosexuality in religion was typically the case escpecially in the old times because mortalilty rates were a bitch, and maximizing offspring would help have many people in the religion for a stronger support network```
That was one reason. I've seen somewhere that pedophilia was also part of that. And other degenerate shit....

shit on your dick is not generally good when you have good hygiene

@Stefan Payne though ironically the catholic church

can't imagine back in the times when the streets were literally paved with shit

how not? @Salacious Swanky Cat even in a materialistic view, you want to act in your own self interest. doing things that hurt others can be harmful to you, too, which is where you can derive the majority of morals from

if you look at Life expectancy and how they could try and make people be more readily available . gay people would be a hindrance to a tribe or a Civilization whos main export is expansion

And a lot of wrong-doing will make you enemies. It's more beneficial to be good than bad.

^^

Yup

There are selfish reasons to be "good".

true

@GoldenPhoenix that presupposes that something benefits and harms. How can you make a value judgment of anything if everything is just a bunch of chemical reactions.

but that goes to individual choices. that we cant control

@Walsp especially when there is supposed to be as many descendants as grains of sand and what not

to back up Phoenix point, its generally ill-advised to hurt others who have potential support networks. Increases the chances someone hurts you in return. not good if you want to keep your stuff intact

Ask hitler