This is a classic Motte and Bailey

So even if Christians are not working towards having a state, as long as they fulfill the great commission and are remaining faithful, they are doing well.

```I disagree that we have any imperative to establish a state```

You are defending something much weaker than what you claimed

How so?

We have a moral obligation still. There is a hierarchy of charity, but that is a red herring.

We have certain responsibilities as Christians, establishing a state is not one.

Except that is heresy

And until you debate me on Catholicism this is true

We have a moral obligation only if God is not enforcing His will through what ever state exists already

We have a moral obligation at all times to govern based on Christs principles.

The state doesn't stop at the president, the Father, the localities, etc

That is assuming a Christian is in power and I would agree

Assuming a non Christian is in power it's still true

So how do you intend to explain to an atheist king why he should adhere to the bible?

A non Christian in power will go to hell, and will not lead goodly

You'd have to evangelize him

Of course?

Yeah

How does this change what I say?

What do you mean?

I don't think we disagree on as much as you think

```I disagree that we have any imperative to establish a state```

Alright

So

Where is this imperative?

In the magisterium

Where?

In the magisterium

lol

Okay, so the magisterium is recorded in the catechism is it not?

No

So the interpretation of the word is recorded by word of mouth only?

No

If your church has a position on this that is cool, my only question would be where this is recorded.

Where in the Catechism would I find this

The magisterium comes from the decree of the church authority. We have papal bulls, ex Cathedra statements, ecumenical councils.

Alright

The Catechism is simply a tool, a good compilation

So within these, where and when does the Church take up it's position that a state *must* be established and what is used to justify this?

Just google the American Heresy