the health risk argument is hard to make on a scientific level since child birth has health risks as well. Even if it is worse for your health, that doesn't make it that immoral, and certainly isn't reason enough to ban it

you need to establish why killing a life in this case is wrong

I've told you, I don't have deeper answers you seem to be reaching for. I'm at best an amateur autodidact etymologist. My skills are within words, not sciences and I am certainly, personally, not a bastion for ethics and morality. I've provided the bare basics. Others have gone into greater depths. If you're still not convinced, that's *your* problem, not ours. Why do you persist? Do you want an abortion? Who's stopping you?

Oh well in that case we can just end the line of questioning here, since it seems you don't have a justification for the center of your argument. I wouldn't want to get someone pregnant in a place where abortion is illegal, so the freedom to do so benefits myself yes.

we can pick this up another time if you like, this will always be my challenge to your argument

can I intervene?

or did you leave?

I'm still here

ok so you are asking why killing is wrong?

It's something taught and coded into us for protection and survival of our species and our tribe

Uh welll clearly not because I'm a counter example to this 😂

You have a right to live until you are a threat

the bike?

The reason I'm asking is because no one seems to be able to give me an argument.

Do I?

we have rights for the betterment of the life of everyone and our people

What are rights and why do you think we have them?

so protect our tribe and our species

they are a bunch of commonly agreed rules which ensure the betterment of ourselves and our community

One sec...

Killing a baby or a fetus is killing a person who doesn't pose a threat to your right or your tribe

I am not in agreement though. Why should I or anyone else agree to these?

because it gives me the right to murder you which makes the fabric of civilization collapse

if I don't suffer the consequences for murdering a member of someone else's tribe the tribe is week and should be eliminated.

only the tribe which defend themselves and their offsprings survived

Well no we can ban murder without appealing to these rights which can't be demonstrated to exist.

they are a social pact

But society disagrees on these

And have for decades.

your violation is you rejecting humanity and society

Abortion is legal right now.

So let's go to abortion spacificly

Well no society has rejected what you are proposing.

and why I think it should be included

muslims have

Society decided (for the most part) to allow abortion.

So do you want me to continue on abortion?

Societies also disagree on these policies, between socities

I'm just responding to your point. By all means.

abortion is part of murder because murder is killing someone of your tribe or of other tribe who didn't pose a threat

But keep in mind I haven't accepted human rights as of yet.