Message from @Koninos

Discord ID: 671478185119973398


2020-01-27 21:35:16 UTC  

1) An education which is absolute on objective matters, and on subjective matters an education which states the facts objectively, without leaning to any sides, and letting the students lean in to any side by themselves.
2) Brainwashing doesn't always work, is unethical and violates human rights.
3) You can educate one before they become ambitious or develop any huge emotional impulses. For those who have already been "educated," you can reduce their ambition. And well, if they are idiotic absolutes, the state doesn't need them, and the people can vote for them to be deported.

Emotional impulse is __currently__ the biggest predictor in majority populations indeed, but that's because people of these majority populations have not received proper education, with good quality.

2020-01-27 21:35:30 UTC  

Basically education, nowadays, is biased, subjective and bad.

2020-01-27 21:35:57 UTC  

So the emotional impulse that is inside every each and one of us takes control of our mind.

2020-01-27 21:36:00 UTC  

Point 3 sounds distopian

2020-01-27 21:37:09 UTC  

@Maksim How so?

2020-01-27 21:38:35 UTC  

the biggest problem with education how it currently functions is that its much less concerned with developing the child as a whole through knowledge and guidance and much more concerned with test marks, grades and just "teaching" the child whats necessary for them to secure a job. obviously this is important as well but education should be much more than that

2020-01-27 21:38:55 UTC  

^

2020-01-27 21:38:59 UTC  

MUCH more.

2020-01-27 21:40:21 UTC  

Nowadays many parents, teachers, the state even, undermine the importance of philosophy, debating, etc, because it's not going to guarantee you a job.

2020-01-27 21:43:01 UTC  

1) you cannot derive moral oughts from facts. furthermore, there is no reason why "knowing the facts" will reduce corruption
2) sure
3) you cannot stop emotional impulse through education for the same reason you can't stop your height from growing with education. it's a natural process. btw, children under the age of 1 already show emotions such as tribalism. Once again, you have to tell me how you teach people not to be ambitious. I need evidence. you can't simply say, we are going to make them not ambitious

2020-01-27 21:43:16 UTC  

even stuff that is important later in life such as taxes, finance etc is hardly touched on at all at least here

2020-01-27 21:43:24 UTC  

not sure how it is in other countries ofc

2020-01-27 21:49:36 UTC  

1) You state several beliefs, quotes, etc regarding the moral topic, you get a good teacher to explain every possible view of the topic, and let the students, through debating and research, form an opinion. Knowing the facts isn't a way to reduce corruption, it's a way education can be objective, without being biased or promoting certain ideologies/beliefs/whatsoever, and a way through which students can form opinions.
3) You don't teach people not to be ambitious. You just reduce their ambitiousness by placing a roof over their heads, saying that's the highest they can ever reach. Should they reach the roof, they're not going higher. Should they attempt to go higher, they deal with the consequences. You also teach the student why that roof exists, and what can happen if the roof breaks. Moreover, as long as you can control emotions, the educational system could use several psychological (NOT psychiatrical) methods to let students master their emotions and become more reasonable.

2020-01-27 21:50:36 UTC  
2020-01-27 22:04:29 UTC  

What form of government are you actually advocating for? What is this roof?
On the emotional front, you aren't seeing what I'm getting at. I'm talking about moral emotions and how they effect people's political opinions. Being low in openness to experience and high in consciousness is a high predictor of conservativism. The inverse is a high predictor of progressivism. Being high in disgust sensitivity predicts authoritarianism and social conservatism. Low disgust sensitivity predicts social liberalism etc. No matter how many facts people know, they are always going to disagree because they are going to disagree on what should be done about the facts. @Koninos

2020-01-27 22:10:46 UTC  

Modified Direct Democracy, and the roof is the amount of power and position one can get in this Democratic system.

As for the people's emotions, they can be controlled and mastered through many ways, as I said. And by teaching discipline, the Democratic values and all, students can freely express their views, even if they're Authoritarian or conservative. One of the education's purpose should be to get students to understand why Democracy is important and vital for the population. And disagreeing with what should be done about the facts is a good thing, since the Educational System should promote debating between the students. But with placing that roof, the limit of power one can have, and in combination of mastering one's emotions and having discipline and many other important values, people's emotions place no threats to Democracy or the Educational System.

2020-01-27 22:11:11 UTC  
2020-01-27 22:12:09 UTC  

@Koninos how is power measured?

2020-01-27 22:14:05 UTC  

In the system I'm talking about, with the height of the position(s) one can have.

2020-01-27 22:14:31 UTC  

The higher the position, the more administrative power the person who acquires the position has.

2020-01-27 22:14:34 UTC  
2020-01-27 22:14:45 UTC  

Do you want me to ping you actually?

2020-01-27 22:17:17 UTC  

yes, we can keep pinging. if I don't respond on time it's because I'm doing something else.

What happens when people vote for more centralized governmental institutions? @Koninos

2020-01-27 22:17:42 UTC  

when they vote to increase the limit

2020-01-27 22:17:54 UTC  

Then the limit is increased.

2020-01-27 22:18:06 UTC  

It's up to them how they want their state to be run.

2020-01-27 22:18:35 UTC  
2020-01-27 22:20:40 UTC  

so the Educational System will refer to the current power limit when explaining to students why there is a power limit, whatever the current limit happens to be

2020-01-27 22:20:53 UTC  
2020-01-27 22:21:34 UTC  

I take it this is a majority vote system

2020-01-27 22:21:38 UTC  

Yes, and explain the need of a limit etc.

2020-01-27 22:22:56 UTC  

Actually the educational system should promote this Modified Direct Democratic System as much as it can, but also as objectively as it can. People love power, as you said earlier, so it's kinda hard for them to vote for a more centralized government. It could happen if the state was in the verge of collapsing.

2020-01-27 22:23:02 UTC  
2020-01-27 22:28:10 UTC  

They can vote for the creation of more public institutions (thus more centralized power) by creating a +51% coalition. Instead of having official campaigns like in a republic it would be unofficial. This maybe harder to organize, then again the average person is more educated so it might cancel out the costs.
How are teachers decided on?

2020-01-27 22:31:03 UTC  

The teachers should be decided by the educational reformers, a body of these 50 wisest and most well-educated people of the country that I told you about earlier. Direct voting on teachers would be a disaster unless all people were excellently educated, which should be the primary goal of the educational system, but it's too hard.

2020-01-27 22:31:42 UTC  

However the educational reformers should have the right to call for an election if they cannot decide between 2 or more Professors.

2020-01-27 22:32:15 UTC  

It's a system that I haven't really well thought of and needs a lot of improvement though @Pseudo-Analysist

2020-01-27 22:34:33 UTC  

Since you say wisest, I assume these reformers aren't democratically elected? @Koninos

2020-01-27 22:35:50 UTC  

They are. They should be the 50 wisest and most well-educated and knowledgeable etc people in the sight of the country's population.

2020-01-27 22:36:21 UTC  

How is this decided upon?

2020-01-27 22:37:17 UTC  

Like a normal election. The candidates gather, present themselves, debates are organized and the elections happen. The 50 first are in the Educational Reforming Body.