I just said I don’t for things that aren’t court cases

Do you believe in presumption of innocence?

For American courts yes

So presumption of guilt you believe in?

No

For international matters?

It’s not binary

Do you believe 100% Saudi Arabia did this? No questioning?

For international matters I believe in neither presumption of innocence or guilt

Nope

Nope to 100

Yes to questioning

Ok so I think we both agree. Investigate it extremely carefully

But you would have to be a fool to not suspect them and impose sanctions until they give us more evidence

But they are our ally

Who murdered a journalist

(Most likely)

Not confirmed

Ok but cmon

And what if they didn’t?

95% chance

Then their story would be different

Then that would be extremely unfair

Conservatives believe in trial by evidence and facts. Liberals say if you are smiling you are guilty.

Like children on a playground.

Ridiculous and reductive

Well because conservatives want an investigation

Not presumption of guilt

Everybody wants an investigation

And why not presumption of innocence for international matters?

What changed?

That never existed

But it shows that if given the chance liberals will most likely say they are guilty

This is not about the Constitution

But it is about morality

No, it doesn’t, it shows that people who look at the situation fairly will say: Saudi Arabia probably did it

Presumption of innocence is moral in all situations

Heck no it isn’t

Clarify

Let me think of an example

Ok as an example of a situation in which conservatives ignored presumption of innocence: the invasion of Iraq because we suspected they had weapons of mass destruction. This isn’t an example of when presumption of innocence is immoral (it was moral in this case) but it is an example of conservatives flip flopping on this issue.