@Mush
> Sexual promiscuity shouldn't be incentivized, it's shown to have a dire impact on divorce rates and happiness in relationships

This is commonly said, but those stats are correlative, not causative. BPD and sexual promiscuity go hand and hand; BPD is also basically an attachment disorder which causes unstable relationships

> I don't know, it honestly seems like sex work is becoming more and more something young women are turning toward, with sex cams, "premium snapchats" and hell, even Twitch to an extent

I've had some eye opening experiences lately. Lots of women who are prostitutes who won't admit it to themselves hanging around online dating sites looking for shopping, help with rent, cloths, whatever.

You can try to not incentivise it however it is a product with a market, it’s going to happen no matter what you do, making it legal would reduce crime around it and also give protections for women and men who do sex work and the government can even tax it if they want, since it is a business.

There's also a problem with the message - you aren't going to gain any traction with the 'we want to go back in time'/dislike of promiscuity talk because socially we're well past those questions - that came with available birth control. It is also far too easily conflated with the incel/mgtow movements.

The truth of the matter is that we're seeing a 'levelling' of the sexual market where you're seeing different trends - and sex work is highly lucrative and so will of course be something people with few other prospects are drawn to, especially if there is no stigma.

But we're seeing more clearly, imo, the resources/beauty dynamic - and I'm personally seeing this. It is difficult to navigate the 'legitimacy' of feelings vs just seeing someone as a good provider/attractive and I'm sure that contributes to the reduction in people planning to marry.

I think we could make those arguments but stress that the larger MRM takes a non-partisan approach so we don't alienate the prolife side. It would be good if we could get both of those sides to agree with our core message, though I admit that could split the movement.

Idd the issue for me has to be the message getting co-opted by people who are incredibly bitter, and driving moderate voices away. There are many who don't identify as Democrat or Republican who are looking for a movement where you're simply able to discuss these things. No judgement, no Trump hats, no 'so you're against abortion' logical fallacies - just debate.

Debating facts is a waste of time

surely that is exactly how we are going to get moderate people to see and understand the point of the movement?

Otherwise you aren't able to break apart any of the 'false' facts used by other movements to push their ideologies. It just becomes who can scream the loudest.. and then mrm becomes primarily a protest movement.

Which is fine - but longer term that seems to me that it'd poison the well.

I worry about the relationship between men and women. So many things are causing a rift, from modern day feminism to sex dolls being a growing market. You can look at Japan and see, the man-woman relationship is very quickly dying there. They're in a crisis. I worry that legalizing prostitution will hurt more than it helps.

I can see how it's not a popular sentiment, but what actually happens when any woman is able to legally sell sex?

Will romance die, or will it flourish? Will the average woman lose power or will they gain it? Will promiscuity increase or decrease? If prostitution is legalized, how will that affect child support? Can any poor "John" get slammed with child support then because he had sex with a prostitute?

romance is just the feeling we experience while high on our bodies chemicals that drive us to mate

its all a farce

a biochemical illusion

Every emotion is a chemical reaction but that doesn't mean they don't matter. Our emotions are what give our lives meaning from start to finish

I disagree

Everyone lives striving toward some sort of happiness or at least contentedness. Companionship goes a long way toward that

companionship is meaningless if there is a overwelming chance he or she will be unloyal and society will encourage that behavior

i trust my dogs more than i trust some 20 something chick in current year

@Mush if the average woman is able to sell sex without social repercussions, and both women and men are able to earn equally - then we're in a sellers economy. You're already seeing this with cam girls/twitch girls making six figures due to accessibility and the 'stigma' largely reducing, certainly in progressive areas. I'd say once you introduce relatively decent sex robots you reduce a bit of that power imbalance, but from what I've heard most people buying escorts aren't actually doing it for the sex, they're doing it because men past a certain age without resources are essentially invisible.

So I'd expect to see an increase in the 'male grooming' market to compensate for this. If both genders can earn equally (indeed below 30 I believe women out-earn men as a group) it'll put the focus more on direct attraction, skin care, etc. We've already seen the explosion in population gym use largely because of this. But at the end of the day marriage was societal selection not sexual selection. From what I remember something like 80% of women and 60% of men typically breed across a generation. I'd expect this will go something like 70%/50% and change over time due to availability, the development of the social safety net and the acceptable nature of no-fault divorce.

According to data gathered by OKC (a dating website) women deem around 80% of men "below average"

I don't think that's the fault of those men, you are right, it already *is* a sellers' market

At least decent sex robots would more than likely bring down the average woman's "desirability" and even the playing field a bit

But realistically, society has allowed these men to fall out of the gene pool for generations - we just had no statistics on it.

@basedgringo WHo are you responding to?

I find the whole thing hilarious

I was responding to @Rockstar

@Mush I think the dating thing is somewhat hilarious. The way women rate men make high value guys have a surplus of options. They think they can capture one of them with the new Tinder dating market. In reality those guys won't settle.

The vast majority of women I know repeatedly make the same mistakes and wonder why they're 40 and childless.

On one hand it's kind of funny, on the other hand it's sad to think about what it's doing to average young men

Definitely

All the time there's a story about some young guy who just couldn't take the feeling of being unwanted anymore and decided to lash out, either against others or himself

I'm not an incel by any means, I've had a fair few relationships, but I see the frustration and understand

Especially with dating sites, the chance of a man getting a reply to an initial message is only about 4%

What are regular guys supposed to do when they have almost no value in the "sexual marketplace" aside from occasionally providing a free meal?

Maybe society should lie to them and tell them there's 72 virgins if they die in war.