I mean, as far as I have seen, MRAs have always been the one actually willing to talk, present facts and debate. But feminism has been the dominang narrative for all these years that just the idea of male opression sounds laughable to most people. Hell, I'd say most men dont even know most of the things we talk about here, or just dismiss them as less important.

Also, MRAs bash feminism and for a very good reason. For one thing feminists have directly or indirectly hurt men in a lot of cases, stripping them of rights and mocking them every time they try to talk about them. On the other hand the same people claim that feminism cares about both men and women, so you can see why men get frustrated over their sheer hypocricy.

Oh I agree, the strength is the debate, the ability to present the facts in a different way and 'uncover' the prejudice.

But the problem with most of the modern discourse is you see it on twitter.. you see it being a very closed ecosystem.. People follow others with similar beliefs...

there is no consistent dissenting voice most of these people actually get to see.

So all you see for years is confirmation bias, and imo that makes the job of MRA more difficult because people simply don't believe you're presenting the facts and that those facts exist. it is fingers in the ears lalalala style discussion in many cases.

Yeah for sure

Imo the true difficulty does lay with toxic masculinity and the problem of admitting 'male weakness' exists.

Its not just people tho. The media are so engaged in this as well

Because ironically it goes against the type of chauvinism which many women (who are non feminist) buy in to. The idea of the male role being the 'strong one' who provides and protects.

Which is where we are back to 'toxic masculinity', but not in the way the feminists would have you believe. Because when I think about it, the only way you're going to see MRA 'explode' into the mainstream has to be admitting that aspect of toxic masculinity (the requirement to be masculine and strong at all times) is limiting and also obliterates any possibility to open up a narrative about areas where men are downtrodden and under-represented, if not downtrodden.

you only need to look at the reaction to the number of men and boys in education and their performance to see the reaction from feminists and the mainstream.

'fuck them, we need more women in stem' - to see we need to open that door, imo, to be able to get to everything else.

The problem is this is also the same door which many women are attracted to. It's a catch-22.

Nah, I dont think there is a way society accepts MRAs as legit. After all the smearing and the way they are vilified. If the Red pill backlash is any indication, the world is not ready for MRAs.

Which is really sad, but ultimately it is what it is.

@RoroGr[Greek] i do, its about the image we have. we need to embed ourselves into pop culture, we need a "pop culture" moment, something makes us cool and trendy, like a counter counter

like rock was in the 60s during woodstock

there's always a romanticism to "bad" things

in the case of the MRM, it's not even "bad", it's the right side when you look at the facts

we should use the controversy to generate publicity, then show people what we're really about. it will make the people who criticize us and say we're a hate group look stupid

SJWism is becoming the overbearing, over controlling "big brother", people are getting sick of it and will want to rebel

what feminism is now is what hippies in the 60s were against

they have become, ironically, "the man" they fought against

https://www.reddit.com/r/FeMRADebates/comments/ase89s/im_worried_my_son_wont_get_into_a_good_college_he/

is that sub actually good?

Some posts are, some not

I mean does it actually successfully cross-over Feminism and MRA ?

Mostly yeah. They go way far on avoiding "generalizations" so you can't even say that "feminists oppose men's rights", for instance.

thats... extremely promising

it still must be a madhouse of arguements though

Mostly, yeah

It stays respectful, but most of the usual feminist bullshit rears its ugly head

"only 3rd wave feminism got bad", "MRAs, MGTOW, and incels...", "bunch of hate in the MRM", "patriarchy hurts men too", "toxic masculinity is a huge men's issue"

I actually have a lot of respect for 3rd Wave Feminism...

but its possible I was only exposed to the good parts of it

I'm not sure it's true that you can't say feminism opposes men's rights, I saw posts yesterday which were making that point by showing the protests against Warren farrel speaking at a university

You can insinuate that, but if you don't say "most of" or "not all feminists" you'll get nabbed

you can't use the categorical

well the mods seem... relatively nonbiased

Yeah, they are pretty aggressively nonbiased