Message from @asparkofpyrokravte

Discord ID: 535730894024081408


2019-01-18 05:05:44 UTC  

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2019-01-18 05:06:33 UTC  

Discrimination with respect to asset discrimination is still there. I think the easiest way to colloquially demonstrate that is to say that if you go asking for a divorce as a woman you'll get completely different advice than you'll get as a man

2019-01-18 05:11:44 UTC  

Basically sometimes a man is downright lucky if he gets 80-20 in a divorce due to alimony and rules concerning the marital home

2019-01-18 05:11:47 UTC  

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2019-01-18 05:12:03 UTC  

HOWEVER, family court is a complete cesspit

2019-01-18 05:12:24 UTC  

While you hear plenty of stories of men getting insane splits like 80-20 and ending up lucky

2019-01-18 05:12:33 UTC  

You also hear stories of wives who get completely and utterly screwed

2019-01-18 05:14:27 UTC  

If you watch Divorce Corp, I think you can get a pretty good feel that family court can be a maze of incestuous relationships between lawyers and judges, so sometimes husbands who pick the right unscrupulous lawyer can more or less clean out their wives

2019-01-18 05:14:35 UTC  

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2019-01-18 05:14:57 UTC  

As I was saying child custody is a lot easier to demonstrate

2019-01-18 05:17:22 UTC  

You can see that in Canada contested orders go 60% mother, though the uncontested cases are less bad than the US

2019-01-18 05:17:58 UTC  

For the US stat, well, make some estimates based on Fig 1.

2019-01-18 05:18:09 UTC  

Uncontested cases go very poorly for fathers, and contested cases don't go as well for fathers as they do for mothers.

2019-01-18 05:21:51 UTC  

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2019-01-18 05:22:03 UTC  

Finally, the RBOMI article on divorce is really, really good: https://www.reddit.com/r/rbomi/wiki/main#wiki_3._discrimination_in_divorce.2Ffamily_courts

2019-01-18 08:02:36 UTC  

So it turns out that after remembering a bit of research I did, the study that men get custody 50% of the time in court cases was a woozle

2019-01-18 08:03:18 UTC  

Basically everything tends to refer back to the "Gender Bias Study of the Court System in Massachusetts"

2019-01-18 08:04:57 UTC  

Basically when feminists cite works that cite it they say that when men contest they get 50%, but neglect to mention women are more successful

2019-01-18 08:05:02 UTC  

and the study had a low n-count

2019-01-18 08:05:06 UTC  

and a few other niggles

2019-01-18 08:06:08 UTC  

But partially its just fundamentally flawed, because men don't contest unless they are relatively certain of victory, since contesting will likely eat through most marital assets because family court is expensive as heck, and because the man will likely still owe alimony afterwards.

2019-01-18 08:06:31 UTC  

The PEW data the tweet mentions just says almost all cases settle

2019-01-18 08:07:14 UTC  

which is true of all US courts, including criminal. In other contexts femininsts will note that this serves to amplify and obfuscate injustice

2019-01-18 08:08:00 UTC  

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2019-01-18 08:08:09 UTC  

That's the best debunking of the Massachusetts study

2019-01-18 08:08:17 UTC  

" The rate at which mothers’ requests for sole custody were honored is 65% higher than the comparable rate for fathers’ requests. "

2019-01-18 08:08:46 UTC  

Holy christ

2019-01-18 08:08:48 UTC  

Thanks a lot Gen. I didn't even know they contested our claim about Divorce in this way.

2019-01-18 08:10:05 UTC  

We need an article on this, and I think you just wrote most of the key points. If there is anything else please let me know!

2019-01-18 08:15:37 UTC  

I think I've gathered most of the relevant material. Just be careful, because while there is ample evidence that family court is biased against men in both custody and assets, that is not universally true, and many people are aware of a woman who has gotten legitimately royally screwed by the system (usually asset-wise, but occasionally custody-wise also), because it sure does happen, and isn't especially uncommon either. Family court is a complete cesspit.

2019-01-18 08:16:10 UTC  

And if they are out there, you might want to try to find hard numbers for DV false allegations, because I haven't looked for that

2019-01-18 08:18:32 UTC  

The lawyer who did an AMA on /r/mensrights said that the family court climate differs significantly by state in the US, which doesn't contradict anything I've found, that may be worth mentioning.

2019-01-18 08:21:22 UTC  

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2019-01-18 08:22:43 UTC  

Oh one more thing depending on how far you go. Another argument that will be made occasionally based on PEW stuff is that the mother spends more time with the child than the father - ergo custody. But think we all see how that is discrimination based on gender role.

2019-01-18 08:24:04 UTC  

And how that doesn't explain split custody vs sole custody

2019-01-18 08:26:06 UTC  

If I were writing I'd probably skip the discrimination based on gender role argument and just point out that a difference of several hours per month shouldn't translate into sole custody, leaving "especially considering the provider role" or something as an offhand remark, if I went into that argument at all.