Did you read why they speculate that as well ?

Why were the women who attempted using that method more likely to survive? Because they then phoned an ambulance or someone was nearby to help?

InsaneCaterpilla, unfortunately, I've looked at the data and that particular explanation for why women attempt suicide more doesn't really explain the data either

I can't prove that explanation is false

but I can't substantiate that explanation as being worthwhile either

So I don't think it is a proper way to approach the problem

Mmm

@InsaneCaterpilla I can only speculate that women are more open to telling their problems

But I have no idea

"I can only speculate that women are more open to telling their problems" @lazzzycarrot(30) / senpai(40), I have a problem with that statement too, though my objection is considerably less data-driven. I **think** if you look into psychology, (though one has to be really careful with psychology studies as that is a feminist-dominated field) there is no good reason to suggest that men are really that worse at dealing with stress. Men and women are biologically different and handle stress differently in part because of this, and so those things are hard to directly compare. Rather, one *does* find that men are under (in many cases as a direct result of their own choices) more stress than women.

Yes, society's reaction to men being open about their problems is a significant issue

Dude read the article

but I'm skeptical about that as being the biggest issue

Half the things you have problems with they address

I've read that study before so it has been a while

so I'm not entirely up to date on it

give me a sec, I just got to the point where it "explains" the gender paradox

haha

Alright

Some gems

Gender conditioning might address the last point you made

"whereas the higher rate of suicidal death among men is probably associated with the choice of the method." -- remember, they are publishing a study that shows quite clearly that the choice of method cannot explain that higher rate even if men and women attempted suicide at equal rates

And just about all the other reasons given are listed, by this same study, as "theories" that may be consistent with data, but nothing substantitive

That's the most substantive statement it makes

Yes, it posits a social model that addresses gender conditioning

but isn't something substantive

and isn't presented as such

Im not understanding your points are you arguing with data ? Or asking why men have a higher success rate than women when using the same method ?

I'm saying that men *do* have a higher success rate than women when using the same method, and that difference is black-and-white

Method choice doesn't explain squat

the speculative writing in the paper of your link is pretty shallow, so it ought not to be used as a serious attempt at diagnosing the problem. Rather, it is an introductory one.

I don’t agree but I respect your opinion

I think this one sentence "[Women] also tend to perceive problems as personal and seek help at health care institutions. The males usually see their distress as a result of economic or social problems, they deny that they have depression, and tend to abuse alcohol. ", which is based on data from another paper, is likely getting at something important, but I'd love to substantiate how important that is

You can compare those sorts of trends to what happens in NSSI (non-suicidal self-injury), which is very much a women's issue, and has some really interesting developmental breakpoints with regard to boys and girls.

“Worth mentioning is a neglected factor that contributes to the gender suicide ratio – the wound site or the area of the body that is wounded in firearm suicides. Males may have a higher rate of suicides by firearms partially due to their greater likelihood than women for shooting themselves in the head as opposed to the body. This has been related to gender differences in fear of facial disfigurement and suicide intent. Data from 807 suicides committed with firearms revealed that women were 47% less apt than men to shoot themselves in the head as well as use shotguns and rifles in their suicides (weapons that make head shooting awkward). The findings are consistent with the assumption that women are more concerned than men about facial disfigurement, and that women have a lower desire to die than men [33]. At this point one can see gender conditioning resulting not only from the psychopathology or suicidology, but also from psychology – women, even in the face of death (or only an attempt), are concerned with aesthetics and their own appearance.”

You can apply this to NSSI as well

"The findings are consistent with the assumption...that women have a lower desire to die than men"

The question is how much of the difference is fear based

and how much of it is strength of suicidal desire-based

how would you like to measure that ?

I hope I am not intruding but, I believe women are more sensitive towards themselves than men are. Although this is completely anecdotal, men tend to be reckless on both the ends. This can also be interlinked to the social factors which develop such mental conditioning, more so because of the reactions, a societal setting offers to men. Whereas, women, in general seem to generate more empathy from the peers, this could be the best possible explanation as to why they seem to be open about their problems. Because they don't receive hostile reactions from the peers which don't seem to be the case with men.