I think the data puts "actual fatal results are higher for men since they tend to take more serious routes guns etc" in a bit of perspective

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3539603/

It’s a fact that men use more violent means than women

It is, but that's reaching. Men continue to have similarly inflated suicide rates even in the absence of the most violent means (firearms)

I don't believe there is a serious source that establishes that as the explanatory factor for the severity of the difference

It is *a* reason, sure, but it really shouldn't be used to explain the problem as a whole

Firearms were just one example that’s why I used etc. I understand where your coming from. However, I’m from the US so maybe using a gun was a bad example since they aren’t so prevalent in other sides of the world. But what is consistent in most studies is that the mode of suicide tends to be more violent which mean leading to a higher success rate

Yes, that is indeed consistent. But that leading to a higher rate doesn't explain the rate.

For instance, that study you cited showed nearly half of men and women who comitted suicide used the same method. Any difference in method literally cannot explain a 3x higher suicide rate in men

Did you read why they speculate that as well ?

Why were the women who attempted using that method more likely to survive? Because they then phoned an ambulance or someone was nearby to help?

InsaneCaterpilla, unfortunately, I've looked at the data and that particular explanation for why women attempt suicide more doesn't really explain the data either

I can't prove that explanation is false

but I can't substantiate that explanation as being worthwhile either

So I don't think it is a proper way to approach the problem

Mmm

@InsaneCaterpilla I can only speculate that women are more open to telling their problems

But I have no idea

"I can only speculate that women are more open to telling their problems" @lazzzycarrot(30) / senpai(40), I have a problem with that statement too, though my objection is considerably less data-driven. I **think** if you look into psychology, (though one has to be really careful with psychology studies as that is a feminist-dominated field) there is no good reason to suggest that men are really that worse at dealing with stress. Men and women are biologically different and handle stress differently in part because of this, and so those things are hard to directly compare. Rather, one *does* find that men are under (in many cases as a direct result of their own choices) more stress than women.

Yes, society's reaction to men being open about their problems is a significant issue

Dude read the article

but I'm skeptical about that as being the biggest issue

Half the things you have problems with they address

I've read that study before so it has been a while

so I'm not entirely up to date on it

give me a sec, I just got to the point where it "explains" the gender paradox

haha

Alright

Some gems

Gender conditioning might address the last point you made

"whereas the higher rate of suicidal death among men is probably associated with the choice of the method." -- remember, they are publishing a study that shows quite clearly that the choice of method cannot explain that higher rate even if men and women attempted suicide at equal rates

And just about all the other reasons given are listed, by this same study, as "theories" that may be consistent with data, but nothing substantitive

That's the most substantive statement it makes

Yes, it posits a social model that addresses gender conditioning

but isn't something substantive

and isn't presented as such

Im not understanding your points are you arguing with data ? Or asking why men have a higher success rate than women when using the same method ?

I'm saying that men *do* have a higher success rate than women when using the same method, and that difference is black-and-white

Method choice doesn't explain squat

the speculative writing in the paper of your link is pretty shallow, so it ought not to be used as a serious attempt at diagnosing the problem. Rather, it is an introductory one.

I don’t agree but I respect your opinion