@PunishedMuskovy be careful to not confuse the symptoms of the decline with the causes

women voting is actually a symptom

Is women voting a problem scipio?

In what way?

@Scipio Americanus why bring up cold medicine though

i just take it if my allergy pill didnt work with my constant sneezing

i know i dont have a cold, i just want those damn sneezes to stop

no, its a symptom of a decadent society **in this context**

So what is the root in your opinion

@PunishedMuskovy because it doesn't actually make you less sick

yea it just gets rid of the symptoms

while rhinovirus is still in your blood

@CronoSaturn like, out of this context? your right

@PunishedMuskovy so lets focus on getting rid of the virus that our republic has, not the symptoms it has

what is the virus then?

Liberalism?

thats part of what im asking

Id have to say liberalism

@PunishedMuskovy liberalism is new, this problem is not

well if you really want to go there

then the people who are pushing such symptoms onto us

@CronoSaturn@PunishedMuskovy i have refined my question, when the time comes, should we give up freedom for security?

depends on what kind of freedom you are asking

for what kind of security

Freedom v.s. security is a dilemma forced onto us by people who want neither.

thats what scares me, i dont understand how one must feel to make that decision

@Kazimir Malevich thats a cop-opt statement (ironically)

Doesn't make it any less true.

I don’t think freedom can exist without security

I definitely don’t think liberalism is the cause however. Liberalism has been a consistent feature of the American project

@CronoSaturn

Your choices are confined by threat.

that just occurred to me actually

@CronoSaturn so.. faced by that threat... is there any option at all?

sorry, somthing seems missing, but im having a hard time even thinking of the right question to ask

Yes. Worst case theres the option to die or comply. As satre said you are free in that radical sense

But that is not a desirable degree of freedom

Freedom does not exist in the absence of order

Would it be the freedom to do whatever I wish with myself?

Yes I would give that up

Because the state must protect its citizens