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Would make my life easier
Why can't you accept that your a racist?
You needed Tay to prove that for you did you?
Newfag question, what's the story behind the copy pastas?
I feel based should just come out and say what they really think
World is overpopulated. Issue solved. Checkmate, atheists
What kinda evil do you need to be that the beach boys want to steal your shit?
@✿ Mittens ✿ sure, but that's why punishment exists. To reshape those brains to getting back to "murder is wrong"
That's because the us prison system doesnt work. Period
Poor implementation =/= bad concept
But if you did things like Norway then you'd be a cuck
And i think everyone agrees the us prison system is shit, its just not a particularly easy thing to just "fix"
K. Seems cringey. But I'm new here so what the fuck do i know
Then go full shia and JUST DO IT
Don't let your memes be dreams
or idk you could stop bitching about infrastructure and do that 15min bike ride
you dont have those bike storage things?
then you got the best of both worlds
what im talking about is some people mod shipping containers or similar to act as secure storage for people coming into the city from public transport
but that doesnt seem to be your problem.
feeling entitled to a city without traffic seems to be the issue. which i dont know in what world that will be a thing
to each their own tho i guess
tell me a city without traffic problems and ill show you an exception to the rule
i get that, but work around that shit
if other people are stupid and drive straight into the city centre then you be the guy who takes the train and bikes
yeah but thats just a truism
gumby people will never stop whining
and mal you must live in a weird city that all the parking is at the centre
fair. heres hoping that shit gets fixed
@franti so you're effectively enabling me being a piece of shit? cheers bro
so really without me you wouldnt have food on your table. <:think_cartoon:378717098618388491>
re: the debate q
i think there should be a minimum wage but im not tied to the idea. the minimum wage effectively communicates an expectation that people should be working in such a way thats at least hitting that low bar which given the amount we invest in people doesnt seem unreasonable. I think that welfare as it seems to be implemented undermines how effective that is, however
as for the second part whatever the value someone accepts for their work is what its worth
i dont agree that special interests and "big business" control the govt and if that were true you would not see min-wage laws passed based on what your saying. otherwise spot on david but you might have emigration as some might not be able to provide that level of work to support giving them minimum wage and would have to seek work elsewhere
is it wrong that people advocate their own interest?
i dont think theres a necessity that "the people's" interests and the interest of individuals, even extremely influential individuals, must be at odds. that being said obviously there can arise situations where they do and i think that beyond all else the most important priority as "a people" is to figure out how to avoid those situations and create means of acting together for mutual interest in a beneficial way
realistically the "1%" and the politicians are always going to mix and they even need to, it would be stupid for instance to make provisions making cars less expensive if car manufacturers are telling you it wouldnt make a difference or even make it more expensive, for example. I agree the state needs regulations and provisions but with the recognition that individuals will always, in some shape or form, pursue their own profit to the exclusion of all else and that isnt a bad thing.
in general if the system they are participating in is well constructed, yes
if the system is poorly constructed then perhaps not
i agree, so then the emphasis should be in creating a system that allows people to profit without exploitation
we do, but its also important to realize that changes to the system dictate who those people who are politicians and richmen are
if your changes merely change who is on top, without changing the actions they're incentivized towards, there will always be a conflict
i can accept a kind of "nobility of merit", hereditary nobility?
just because your dad was a good guy doesnt mean you are
appreciate you're just putting it out there and i get the appeal, hereditary entitlements just a bugbear of mine
@Deleted User and i get why, it would sadden me if the english monarchy went away and obviously theres alot of history and sentimental value put up around a certain family and those traditions but the problem is that hereditary nobility often invests power in those least capable of using it and most interested in abusing it
if you needed to earn your family title id be more interested
how is that different to say, a president then?
a president could be elected for life but for any lifelong position theres always the concern that while they once might have been entirely devoted to their country that the devotion wanes over time. there's also no reason to believe that a prince would be equally as devoted.
right but history shows that not all princes were effectively groomed for rule. why take that risk?
@𝕿𝖔𝖙𝖆𝖑𝖎𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖎𝖆𝖓 𝕲𝖗𝖆𝖓𝖉𝖆𝖉𝖉𝖉𝖞 not all princes are groomed from birth though and not all princes are willing or capable of carrying out their duty as they are required to. take commodus for example.
right but how is that determined in a monarchical system?
unless its too fearless. then it dies anyway
right but its important to remember that in a religious context that those *could* be valid actions so long as they gather more adherents
right but in terms of a religions survival or practice enlightenment is only valid so long as it draws people to the faith. your religion could be as enlightened as it could be but if theres no-one practicing it, it doesnt exist
it can, especially if your not the person being hit by the sword
ill put a caveat on my point though in that absolute numbers of religious adherents doesnt make a faith any more or less viable
at least not sufficiently to prevent you doing so
id be interested in reading that myself but not a fan of anprim, which i think unibomber broadly falls under
>god told me i can’t get a girlfriend
@Kazimir Malevich least the brits had an empire...
So your gonna die some day and your house has a boundary
Can’t really read into that “thou shalt not fuck big booty bitches” David
if you actually look at history david cultures that tolerate and allow the dominant culture to be questioned result in the culture being more strongly established
how well does islam spread in the western world
meanwhile saudi arabia seems to find it necessary to go to extreme and expensive measures to retain, only retain mind you, their understanding of islam as predominant in society
and the dominant culture globally is western culture
liberal democracy, the scientific method, the philosophical legacy of the hellenists, enlightenment thinkers....
high and low culture are both things
doesnt seem to be. the global hegemon is america and its pretty secure. its challengers? not so much. also "lived experience" might be talked about but i dont see it being used in the field by engineers
allowing criticism reinforces its adoption and allows it to adapt
the king is dead, long live the king
the globe bows to the standard america sets, not visa versa
islam has a strong base, and thats *it*, lets compare this to the periods of time where sects like the mutazila where tolerated and formed a wider sway...
at that point of time it was dominant and growing, rather than today where its stagnant and in decline
nor do i see the criticsm being levelled in most cases in western culture as destructive
and yes, islam is seeing less not more global influence
and @Deleted User i have no idea why your a neet but it aint the wests fault
anyway, point being, lets use this forum as an example
i can do two things at once, im not saying it has an impact on the larger argument
because its fun and im not here not to have fun
anyway, take this forum, you level criticism at the west while claiming to advocate for it, do you believe your actions reinforce the west or undermine it?
if the later, how do you justify your own actions?
unless im correct your position here is against your own interest
i dont think my conception is radical, gercek. that the dominant culture of america, the western and central European states, australia, canada etc is "the west" seems to be the prevailing view. that the culture of those nations includes high concepts, such as the paintings of monet and the music of Beethoven while also including low concepts such as coca cola and miley cyrus
and lemme clarify myself @Deleted User, im obviously still talking to you so despite my banter im valuing your input and im not sure how you get that im labelling you the bad guy. more my direction was that if you want to do drugs, stay at home, masturbate to anime and take benefits thats fine but its a stretch to say western culture forced you to do so
again, not saying you actually do those things
for all i know your very educated and you earn twice what i do
i disagree and so do the artists producing them
but that culture seems to be thriving
employment is the highest its been in the west, americas unemployment rate has been decreasing year on year since 2010
alcohol and drug abuse, depression, suicide and broken families are in many ways literally first world problems in that theyre only problems that present themselves where there arnt more pressing problems and other cultures seem to be coping with this shift much more poorly
additionally in terms of drug and alcohol abuse the west has made ardent strides and negative birthrates arnt a problem in america
also gercek your being inconsistant
your criticism was low employment, now you accept that its high
also krille raises the point that much of those numbers are increases in reporting and the availability of better management
today rather than having to sell you child into prostitution because your father is an alcoholic, as is shown as a case in crime and punishment, you can seek help and a divorce
the carthaginians also had prositutes as holy women
which also has the benefit of taking some kids out of the carousel of foster care
i dont either but i think its better than the alternative of keeping people together who actively hate eachother
i dont think keeping a family together who actively hates and is destroying itself is a winning project. I agree that the way divorce is handled could be improved, i agree people could seek more meaningful relationships, im not saying our current position isnt without challenges, but i do believe its the best alternative currently available
not entirely true and accept that its a mitigation, not a solution but prenup
there has to be some pretty substantial argumentation
it has to be established why the assumed conditions of the prenup are invalid, a judge cant just say hocus pocus your prenup is gone
im not aware of the stats but lets remember that in america alone theres, what, 300million people? something doesnt need to be common to happen all the time
and while divorce rates in america last time i checked is edging 50% in australia its 30%
i agree snake but clearly its a tractable problem if analogous countries have a 20% difference
also americas marriage rates are very high actually
which might be a contributing factor
and i think that process is in the works. remember though a policy doesnt need to be good for it to be good policy, just less bad then the alternatives
currently we are developing improvements, but i stress, developing
slippery slope fallacy mang, i think we accept that there is impetus for change, its unreasonable to expect that the rates of divorce would continue when again theres other nations where its much lower
also i dont think alimony and child support in and of itself is an issue but i agree, custody and visitation reform should be tackled
snake, chill, i said reform should happen
also your wrong that no political party is talking about it, certainly its not a headline issue but its a present one
especially as a higher female workforce is a thing
theres discussion from both the democrats and republicans thats addressed it, no big moves as of yet but baby steps
a big stumbling block is the public image of mras which, yknow, thats fair
my point is that reform has been passed incrementally already, ive raised reasons to believe that the impetus towards this isnt going away which you dont seem to object to, theres no reason to expect that it would not continue
bills have been passed as the article shows
```n Illinois, the following laws co-authored by Jeffery M. Leving were signed into law in 2009:
SB 1628, sponsored by Senator Iris Martinez and in the House by Representative Deborah Mell, accomplished two things: It amended the Paternity Act and other Acts to insure that both parties be informed to their right to DNA testing before paternity can be adjudicated either through a voluntary acknowledgment, court proceedings or by an administrative law judge. It also amended the visitation interference section of the Criminal Code and made it a criminal offense to deny the other parent their right to parenting time or custody time. Previously, only visitation interference was a crime. (Signed into law: August 11, 2009)
SB 1590, sponsored by Sen. Pamela Althoff and in the House by Rep. Sandra Pihos, and which passed unanimously, allows children and non-custodial parents to use electronic visitation technologies such as email, telephone, internet and video conferencing. Illinois became the sixth state to pass Virtual Visitation Legislation which could enable virtual visitation for incarcerated fathers. (Signed into law: August 11, 2009)
HB 4008, sponsored by Senate by Senator Martinez and Rep. Jehan Gordon, included the paternity provisions of SB 1628. It amended the Paternity Act to ensure that both parties would be clearly informed to their right to DNA testing before a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity is signed or a paternity order is entered. (Signed into law: August 14, 2009)
HB 2266, sponsored by Martinez and Rep. Ken Dunkin, amended the visitation interference section of the Criminal Code with the use of terms used in family cases today (i.e. parenting time and custody time). (Signed into law: August 25, 2009)```
visitation was one of the issues we were discussing
you did address custody as an issue
so when i show that incremental change has been made in reforming custody / visitation...
>if i dont get everything i want then i havnt achieved anything
thats not how progress is made politically, snake, political change is implemented through incremental, realistic change
i disagree and the feminist lobby is pretty divided in whether to support equity in divorce or no
ive said repeatedly snake that the status quo should be reformed
i dont have the stats and i appreciate experience isnt a reliable indicator but people have talked to me about it and im not typically the one to bring it up and ive found that most people, including women feel theres a need to change
i think theres always an issue in making headway in divorce though, which is the same i think plagues people in getting prenups which i think is vital, and thats people dont think it will happen to them
and tbf citizens arnt concerned overwhelmingly for as above
again, not sure about that, dysfunctional marriages and breakups have always been a problem and the state hasnt caused that.
i agree and this is where feminists have actually come into bat because the laws governing this originally assumed that the man brought home the bacon and the woman enabled him and looked after the house and kids
as that responsibility is being questioned many feminists are arguing for the assumptions carried in the way divorce is carried out
and feminism isnt a monolith and i think their concerns in the regards of womens place being in the home as a neccessity was valid
hardly. there is no one "feminism" just as there isnt one "christianity" so pinning it all on "feminism" is too vague to be accurate.
eh, the vikings had pretty shitty divorce standards for men
this is a false dichotomy snake, happy families dont get divorced
and domestic violence also affects kids, more so than single parents
right but if you are in an unhappy relationship and you are forced to stay there often the result is assault
i dont on hand but i should think thats intuitive. if your stuck living with a person you hate there will likely be a punch on
and kids get to have fathers who dont hit them
@Gerçek im not predicating that assault precipitates all divorces but i dont think its unreasonable to think that if either party is forced to stay in a steadily deteriorating relationship, which you are clearly in if you are seeking a divorce, *someone* is very likely to become abusive
although i should clarify that girls are equally capable of filling that role
sure, in either case the relationship shouldnt be kept together just because of the kids because while i agree that the evidence shows that single parents are statistically less capable in providing the same outcomes for their kids, its far ahead of kids being raised in families where the environment is actively abusive
by allowing that relationship to end your cutting your losses
so snake your suggesting the more positive outcome is we allow things to deteriorate to the point that someone has to be arrested and put in prison, in which case the child is raised in a single parent home, society has to pay to imprison that parent and they are no longer productive, just so you can be happy because you dont like divorce?
@Gerçek there are already significant measures to attempt reconciliation in the divorce process, if its unsuccessful and the person is still pushing for divorce it seems unrealistic that things can be patched up
divorce is a lengthy and painful process where the person has to be pretty vehement and unco-operative towards looking at reconciliation, which also isnt really smiled on by the courts
gercek its also unrealistic that the state can force people to care about their kids if they're so trivial as to purely want a divorce because they had a bad weekend
whatever measures the state could take to cure this are likely worse than the problem its trying to treat
thats the convo from the perspective of divorce though. should people care about their kids more? yes? i think thats a different convo though
if a parent is going through a divorce proceeding without considering the kids clearly they consider themselves as seperate and i cant force my view onto them. I cant force people to be good parents and if they are determined in getting out i dont see any point in keeping a bad parent who hates being with their kids in that situation.
i dont think its cost effective to try and pay people out to love their children and their are already significant financial incentives for marriage and kids
and certainly people should be less slutty gercek
i think by reforming divorce to be more equitable and a bit of a cultural swing as things normalise thats 90% of the way there
@Deleted User so you'd be ok with deadbeats going around knocking people up and scampering off?
i think regardless of gender whoever takes care of the kid should receive money in line with what the other parents contribution costs them, adjusted for what role they had in the seperation
you know that alot of the child support stuff had support from your tradcon types so that if theyre daughter gets knocked up by jack down the road he has to either marry or help pay for it yeah?
right but child support is not tied to marriage
absolutely but liberalism is a broad church and im not a libertarian
people have sex outside of marriage whether you like it or not
the problem is she might want to marry him and he does not
this is the original problem child support sought to solve
right but he also can *say* baby ill take care of you
right but the law sees that as a reasonable expectation that if they then knock the girl up then there was an offer and acceptance
also men can and do get alimony payments and child support
also the providing something to the man in return would presumably be the relationship / sex
thats not strictly true snake and @Deleted User a bunch of autists
typically the wife was seen to have custody of the kids traditionally
heres a question i think'd be interesting to get a survey on. I see alotta talk here about """***FEMINISM***""" with alot of anxiety associated towards it and its very difficult to understand exactly what people are getting at here. I think it'd be interesting if people discussed exactly what they meant with that, why the anxiety, why they see it has a following and where its intent is directed towards
right but what are you talking about when you refer to feminism? you see it as negative, clearly, why do you think some people dont share that view?
trying to get away from the whole npc behaviour of "x label is bad"
@Flat i think as you've put out enlisting in a pretty general role would be a valid route to citizenship and the us programs emulating your frame are pretty successful. In that role campodin's objection doesnt seem to bear much weight as they're effectively just grunts, not privvy to much thats useful and pretty replaceable. if they show leadership potential and get their citizenship maybe then think about commissioning them
apologies for the word salad there btw
silas if you dont want to be part of the convo you dont have to but I did ask
no disrespect man but speak for yourself
so gonna tackle this bite by bite orwell, why would we see women rather than men as neccessarily the "breeding" gender?
like you cant get two woman in a room and get a kid out of that
right but why make women the breeding class and not men?
pregnant women have lead nations and non-pregnant women do fight wars
strength is not really a factor in modern society and women can aim a gun as well as a man can
evolution isnt a "meant" to thing crow
right but the underlying causes for it arnt neccessarily still in place
also going by your logic men are expendable
i mean that the underlying cause being the fragility of women compared to men due to lower physical strength. as strength is no longer a meaningful aspect of modern success that seems to undermine the neccessity of having those set roles
earlier someone said you can have one guy knock up 10 girls, given that in terms of breeding guys seem expendable
and untrue @Deleted User, many nations including some of the most effective militaries include women in frontline combat roles
@CrowGoCaw so if theres psych and social needs for the hierarchy why is it dipping in adherance in favor of what you deem a idea set less able to provide that?
also women are more able to handle stress then guys, btw. women recover from injury and sustain wounds better than guys. guys are better at hitting, girls are better at getting hit.
because women are not as physically strong as men but society's heirachys no longer select for strength or capacity to exert physical violence
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