in favor of historical reality

..from an ideologically beneficial point of view

great... "for consitency sake" no genocide happens

grand position

@AdorableStormtrooper ok?

that's not the reason behind it

@Aki ?

history is narrative building, it isn't usually presented completely false

you just hide certain facts

like Holodomor

and they go away from collective memory and discourse

ok?

This is one of the limitations of this platform, one person can easily derail any conversation happening prior.

"The statistical distribution of famine's victims among the ethnicities closely reflects the ethnic distribution of the rural population of Ukraine.[99] Moldavian, Polish, German, and Bulgarian population that mostly resided in the rural communities of Ukraine suffered in the same proportion as the rural Ukrainian population.[99]"

"Total deaths Vary from 3.3 to 7.5 million, see death tool"

A lot of heads had to be shaved there

Stern's distinction between "bad peasants" and "good peasants" is subservience to the marxist order. Note that today's marxists (most of whom don't realize that they are marxists) think much the same of the "bigoted" working class.

Interesting.

don't worry about it, it was the weather that caused the famine, not collectivization. - @Xinyue

I did not actually say the weather caused the famine

wah


http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/397305,Poland-grants-asylum-to-Norwegian-woman-report

but whatever, Storm's gonna Storm

@Xinyue now i know that you will just lie straight faced 😄

I said there were many reasons for why the famine happened, such as

a) the industrial level of Russia and Ukraine at the time
b) the complications in the collectivisation process, such as the kulaks killing their livestock
c) other factors such as the weather variables at the time, which are cited by sometimes by famine researchers

I said from the get-go that it was an event that had multiple causes and it can't be totally reduced to the Soviet government, *much less* any murderous intent on the part of the Soviets

yes

many reasons

i never said that weather was the cause

thanks for quote-confirming me

i would NEVER

>the complications in the collectivisation process, such as the kulaks killing their livestock

people protested when their livelihood was forcibly removed by the system
shock: imagined

weather probably played some effect, although I think the crop sabotage and livestock killing was probably primary

@Xinyue u wot m8

Welp... wiki is a mastersource in debates.

historical revisionism 0 wiki 1

I still did not say that the weather caused the famine, your statement from here is incorrect

```don't worry about it, it was the weather that caused the famine, not collectivization. - @not gay reddit```

You made the claim that I did; I never did

@ecojuche Stern's distinction between "bad peasants" and "good peasants" is subservience to the marxist order. Note that today's marxists (most of whom don't realize that they are marxists) think much the same of the "bigoted" working class.
Interesting.
the distinction between good peasants and bad peasants wasn't brought up by me btw

in the very quote you used I put the main emphasis on the complications in collectivisation

like wtf

that's why I posted them in quotations

```weather probably played some effect, although I think the crop sabotage and livestock killing was probably primary```

some farmers killing a few animals and burning few crops caused an entire famine that killed millions of people.. the systemic policy of eliminating productive farmers, replacing them with bad labor and then transporting all their produce to the city, didn't..