Message from @AdorableStormtrooper
Discord ID: 523928107477106698
not intentional though, most likely not
hence not murdering of millions
If you kill millions of people through written policy that transports all their food to the cities and many of them to Gulags, it isn't murder?
those 600K-700K people who were shot *were* intentional killings, so I suggest that the indictments on Soviet government focus on these tragedies
not the famines that seem to be due to other reasons than intent
golden blockade: ussr has to pay for industrialization in grain and western nations no longer accept gold as payment
USSR has to industrialize to make itself a player in the world stage since it is surrounded by nations that want it to collapse, so it's either death by war or fast industrialization
Without industrialized transportation and production systems, famine is more likely to occur
So the USSR paid for the industrialization in the only material the western nations would accept @Aki
"Only the people who die as a result of policy i don't like are legitimate murders."
you're stating the opposite tbh
"Deaths resulting from my favorite policies are just woopsies, ignore"
you're saying the soviets deserved terrorism because you disagree with them
Murder by definition implies intent
you do not have murder without intent
```murder
/ˈməːdə/
noun
noun: murder; plural noun: murders
1.
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.```
Ok?
this was not premeditated
therefore,
not murder
and?
yes, its not intentional, and not murder. glad we agree
It was the Result of Soviet Collectivization is all I said
Soviet State is responsible
it resulted from the decision to go forward with it, and was due to many factors that all joined up in the collectivisation era. but it was not intentional, its not like Soviet government *wanted* people to die, and once the thing was complete it never happened again. at most the famine can be called a tragic hickup
@Stern The farmers didn't deserve to be transported to Gulags run by a Foreign People and they didn't deserve to be starved while their produce was sent to the cities to Urbanization Projects, that's the Terrorism of the Soviet State
```Kulaks have no agency. Sabotage of crops and killing of livestock by the hundreds of thousands was done by NPCs who do not have moral agency by the virtue of not being sentient.```
- Storm, 2018
I said it was a Protest which was the result of Soviet Policy which anyway ended up killing millions while blaming small time farmers for it all
Collectivization resulted in the Famine, not Farmers Protesting.
if the farmers did not sabotage the crops, and did not kill literally hundreds of thousands of livestock, there's no telling how vastly lesser the famine could've been
this is unescapable
@Xinyue but nice memes bro
@AdorableStormtrooper no one deserves anything tbh
human rights are communist ideas
the Kulaks played a major part in this. Sure, the Soviet collectivisation set them in motion, yes, but the Soviets are not responsible to the frankly psychopathic actions of the kulaks in the era
@Xinyue if Soviets didn't plan Collectivization, which is an innans word for taking everything those Farmers had built.. there wouldn't be protests..
how many meals could've hundreds of thousands of livestock animals provided? or those crops whose harvest was prevented to the Soviet people?
```the Kulaks played a major part in this. Sure, the Soviet collectivisation set them in motion, yes, but the Soviets are not responsible to the frankly psychopathic actions of the kulaks in the era```
completely irrelevant, we're talking about the cause of the Famine
Which was indeed Soviet Policy.
Soviet Policy was ***not*** the sabotage of crops and killing of hundreds of thousands of livestock. That was ***Kulak Policy***
@Xinyue it would have all ended up in the cities anyway 😩
because you need grain for development right?
there's no escape from the fact that Kulaks were killing whatever could've been spent to alleviate any famine. They single-handedly are the amoral faction #1 in the birth of this famine