Further, we know that during the Battle of Moscow, the Wehrmacht was halted. As in, it suffered casualties probably in the hundreds of thousands - we'll probably never know how much exactly - and the *thrust was halted.*

You think that the USSR would just bend over because muh railways?

kek

Reaching Moscow failed not only in theory, but on the battlefield as well.

@Xinyue IN NOVEMBER

When the tanks froze on the fields

Leaf. Literally millions of Red Army troops in reserve to the East of Moscow.

The Wehrmacht lost its offensive capabilities in 1942

If they reached Moscow in October The Red army was fucked

No transport by rail

No, it would only have been a setback

I get that for the nazis its hard to admit, but the Soviet Union was confident enough on the Eastern Front to keep six million troops in reserve

Stalin would be ready to put every soviet citizen in between him and Germany

@Spookaswa he literally stayed in Moscow when the Nazis were 20km from the Kremlin

The entire battle between Moscow was basically just throwing men at Germany attempting to slow them down until they thought of an actual plan lmao

Even if they somehow captured him, significant resistance would still be highly likely

Also, the CPSU =/= Stalin

There were literally people down the line ready to take full command. His most entrusted, his most cherished commanders, many public figures, party members who had gained his favour, etc. etc. Unlike Nazi Germany which was Hitler's personal project, USSR wasn't Stalin's. It wasn't tied to Stalin, it was tied to *Lenin's legacy.* USSR transcended Stalin in a way that Nazi Germany **never transcended Hitler**

Stalin would probably kill him self

@Spookaswa Stalin was he lynchpin, without him the leadership would disintegrate because he had terrorized everyone for so long

In fact much of the war showed how the Red Army fought well without Stalin's interference

this is a complete non-point not only because of USSR would've kept going even if they got to Stalin, but also because Stalin wouldn't ever have stayed in Moscow to face certain death

Moscow isn't to USSR in 1941 what Berlin is to Germany in 1945

Moscow would have been Stalingrad in 1941, at the center of the soviet supply grid, with no Volga to block soviet reinforcements

It would have been a slaughterhouse for germans

> Stalin was he lynchpin, without him the leadership would disintegrate because he had terrorized everyone for so long

except no, not at all true. If this was true, USSR would've collapsed in 1954. You demonstrate insufficient knowledge in the Soviet political life if you think this was the case.

Yeah Germans were always going to lose the war

if for no other reason, then for the depth of defense in USSR and the resource/oil angle

@Xinyue Russia wasn't at war in 1954 you dumb knee grow

It hadn't just gone through the purges

USSR was in war when majority of the Western part of the Union collapsed. But the USSR never collapsed during this, seemingly inevitable defeat, like the French did

again

you don't get Soviets

1991 would disagree

<:mthink:520000393837674497>

....that has no relevance to this

The German high command expected a war similar to France where they could take points of strategic importance and have their enemy capitulate, not the war of attrition at such a massive scale that they got

Yeah

and the resource angle is devastating for the German side