Message from @Xinyue
Discord ID: 526436348110831644
NEP should have survived.
Market Socialism is still socialism though, it is just an inferior form
Dab on you all
No, it has exploitation and capital
Planned Economy or bust
^
Change my mind
Planned economy for the win
ok so i was typing up some notes
against revisionism
and
titoism
semi planned economy 👍
"The problem with market socialism is that while its proposals would, taken at face value, do away with the bourgeois-proletariat class distinction, it doesn't do away with capital itself, or the profit motive, capital centralization, or fetishization of commodities that comes along with it - the most problematic outcomes of capitalism. Basically, everyone becomes a capitalist and arguably becomes subsumed even more thoroughly into the market/commodity paradigm. Competition, not cooperation, is still the rule. Therefore i would compare that to surplus extraction and the creation of profit. Simply putting a factory in the hands of the workers isn't enough to change its status as capital. If the factory is still run under the competitive dictates of the market, the law of value still impinges on the workers as an external force, alienating them, driving them to decrease socially necessary labor time and increase productivity. The capitalist is, as Marx said, simply capital personified. In a free market "socialist" society, the collective of workers is itself the "personification" of capital. Not only that, but under such conditions labor-power must be a commodity! For, if labor power isn't a commodity, then the market cannot be regulated by the law of value, it cannot exhibit the supposed rationality or allocative efficiency." - My notes on revisionism
i am a cuck
Free market planned economy
^
> No, it has exploitation and capital
Socialism = worker ownership of the means of production
This is principle is still realised in MarSoc, so it is still socialism because the workers do manage their means of production. So you can't call it "un-socialistic", but you **can** and should argue that it is fundamentally non-viable
read it
tl;dr
No, it is not socialism
TL;DR My communism is better than your communism
Therefore i would compare that to surplus extraction and the creation of profit. Simply putting a factory in the hands of the workers isn't enough to change its status as capital. If the factory is still run under the competitive dictates of the market, the law of value still impinges on the workers as an external force, alienating them, driving them to decrease socially necessary labor time and increase productivity. The capitalist is, as Marx said, simply capital personified. In a free market "socialist" society, the collective of workers is itself the "personification" of capital.
Socialism is inferior and unsustainable
Too bad that the word "socialism" was first invented and developed by people other than the guys you cite, so I'm afraid you can't own the label @Loser
Capitalism is inferior and unsustainable
RIGHT 👏 WING 👏 LIBERALISM
@Kazimir Malevich so conservatism
Lol
Then again ideological solipsism is in high demand these days - "only the guys I like matter"
@Kazimir Malevich ok Sargon
Soygon of Mossad
Stolypin was a Right-wing Liberal.
@Xinyue Lol i am no sectetarian, but instead of responding to my critique you call me sectetarian without debunking my points
i love market socialism
Don't you dare compare Sargon to the saint.
```Then again ideological solipsism is in high demand these days - "only the guys I like matter"```
you literally do that all the time 😂 @Xinyue
Except that I do not
I literally accept people I resent as socialists if they subscribe to the basic principle
do you not respond to my criticism? no let's call him a sectetarian