heyo

thanks for pointing out the obvious

ok

sir

@Xinyue lol with that kruschev PFP it's unlikely

REVISIONIST

IM CALLING HOXHA

IM REVIVING HOXHA

FROM THE DEAD

Shut up Kruschev

dumb idiot revisionist

`the only thing i know is that i know nothing`

- not gay reddit 2018

@Xinyue say that one more time and ill slit your wrists

damn revisionist

brezhnev is based

but stalin is better

@Xinyue wrong

false

kruschev did

Kosygin reform is western propaganda

But for real

everyone after stalin

garbage

Market Socialism with exploitation

real socialist bro

No, it has exploitation and capital

ok so i was typing up some notes

against revisionism

and

titoism

"The problem with market socialism is that while its proposals would, taken at face value, do away with the bourgeois-proletariat class distinction, it doesn't do away with capital itself, or the profit motive, capital centralization, or fetishization of commodities that comes along with it - the most problematic outcomes of capitalism. Basically, everyone becomes a capitalist and arguably becomes subsumed even more thoroughly into the market/commodity paradigm. Competition, not cooperation, is still the rule. Therefore i would compare that to surplus extraction and the creation of profit. Simply putting a factory in the hands of the workers isn't enough to change its status as capital. If the factory is still run under the competitive dictates of the market, the law of value still impinges on the workers as an external force, alienating them, driving them to decrease socially necessary labor time and increase productivity. The capitalist is, as Marx said, simply capital personified. In a free market "socialist" society, the collective of workers is itself the "personification" of capital. Not only that, but under such conditions labor-power must be a commodity! For, if labor power isn't a commodity, then the market cannot be regulated by the law of value, it cannot exhibit the supposed rationality or allocative efficiency." - My notes on revisionism

i am a cuck

read it

No, it is not socialism

Therefore i would compare that to surplus extraction and the creation of profit. Simply putting a factory in the hands of the workers isn't enough to change its status as capital. If the factory is still run under the competitive dictates of the market, the law of value still impinges on the workers as an external force, alienating them, driving them to decrease socially necessary labor time and increase productivity. The capitalist is, as Marx said, simply capital personified. In a free market "socialist" society, the collective of workers is itself the "personification" of capital.

@Xinyue Lol i am no sectetarian, but instead of responding to my critique you call me sectetarian without debunking my points

i love market socialism

do you not respond to my criticism? no let's call him a sectetarian

lol

your theory is bad

"Worker-cooperatives have workers own, operate and manage the means of labour; therefore, a market economy consolidated solely around worker-cooperatives is, in fact, a distributed socialist system realised in the worker-cooperative enterprise."

Just because it has worker cooperatives does not exactly mean it is socialist, nor does it mean it has socialist elements, The capitalist is, as Marx said, simply capital personified. In a free market "socialist" society, the collective of workers is itself the "personification" of capital. Not only that, but under such conditions labor-power must be a commodity! For, if labor power isn't a commodity, then the market cannot be regulated by the law of value, it cannot exhibit the supposed rationality or allocative efficiency.

"It is an inferior form of socialism, but since the means of labour are in fact owned and managed by their workers as equals, it is socialism."

As i just refuted your socialism i do not think just because it has worker co-ops that it is socialist as i have demonstrated before; marx literally talked about this.

The only way to deny this is to define socialism as something OTHER than worker ownership of the means of labour

I just did? and kruschev is pretty anti-socialist but what i see

@Xinyue

@Xinyue Yes i have read socialism scientific and utopian, and market socialism was never described here; it is absolutely not socialist and scientific socialism would be anti-revisionist. It is absolutely not socialist, as i mentioned before in my previous points but you rejected that and deflected.

No, i am not saying the USSR should repeat itself and stalin had many mistakes

but it is nonetheless a example

lol

debatable

Lenin was very good

true

@Xinyue ". Then again, you are clearly a person of dogmatic inclination, and the dogmatic intellect is a weak form of intellect - it lacks creative impetus and cannot stand on its own." like again you didn't refute my points on it being anti-dialectical and still having profit motive and fetishization, but calls me a sectetarian. " Aspects of Proudhon's thinking definitely fall within the market socialist frame of thinking, let alone Saint-Simon, and both were certainly considered an Utopian Socialist by both Marx and Engels." Obviously, but that is not my point.

No, as that is not a counter-argument

you just refuted market-socialsim

not talking about my own argument

@Xinyue No, as it is not scientific socialism and marx WAS

@Xinyue No it does not, as i explained before in my points

you have no counterarguments

i am a maoist

hoxhaists are gay

@Xinyue literally all you did was talk about scientific socialism, not my argument

First world maoism is retarded

i agree

Yes

thats what i support

@Enigmatic★Chromatic i am saying maoism is literally third worldist

read the little red book

Yes, i know

@Xinyue Literally i am not supporting brezhnev

he is a idiot aswell

but kruschev is bad

yes

he did

NEP was just for industrialization

yes he did

ok fuck haki

m

I literally did @Xinyue

it was revisionism, and the institution of market reforms

it was by no means capitalist

@Xinyue I never said it fully restored capitalism, and gorbachev was horrible

just the market reforms

@Xinyue literally does not excuse his market reforms and his so called "de-stalinization" was propaganda based

three mistakes stalin made: Supporting Isreal's Creating, making homosexuality a crime, Not the best feminist

@Xinyue how is maoism revisionism? it literally has new theory incorporated, and i 100% agree that the three world's theory was absolute garbage

most maoists disavow it

or any sane one

@Enigmatic★Chromatic how is people's war anti-class struggle

what

no i thought you said

that people's war is anti-class struggle

im like wtf

He literally had market reform, and communism in one country is impossible without the destruction of capitalist powers

the rejection of cybernetics is the #1 reason i hate the USSR

Yes i have

actually

he is a nazbol

bet

Internationalist gang

destroy reactionary spooks

Normalizing Soviet Cybernetics, and for Kruschev i have read on the cult of personality and Soviet policy in the international stage.