Message from @Eccles

Discord ID: 671863036323168267


2020-01-28 23:18:24 UTC  

The problem in these cases is not that they're being paid peanuts, it's that they're having those peanuts removd

2020-01-28 23:18:47 UTC  

We should have some kind of UBI system

2020-01-28 23:19:25 UTC  

Yup

2020-01-28 23:19:34 UTC  

Then these stories would evaporate

2020-01-28 23:19:43 UTC  

Because while we can't have people claiming benefits that they are not entitled to we also can't have a system that just completely cuts off people's sole sources of income

2020-01-28 23:22:21 UTC  

I seem to recall you objecting to UBI on the grounds of the lack of means and entitlement testing, Kunarian

2020-01-28 23:22:38 UTC  

THough I confess, I might be confusing you with someone else on account of being old and forgetful

2020-01-28 23:38:37 UTC  

UBI is wrong

2020-01-28 23:38:48 UTC  

largely because it cannot actually be funded

2020-01-28 23:38:57 UTC  

and also the fact that it takes from the poorest

2020-01-28 23:39:03 UTC  

to spread amongst those who don't need it

2020-01-28 23:39:10 UTC  

it also doesn't target need

2020-01-28 23:39:23 UTC  

single people should not be entitled to the same amount as a family

2020-01-28 23:39:36 UTC  

and the disabled need more than those who aren't disabled

2020-01-28 23:39:49 UTC  

targeting is means-testing

2020-01-28 23:39:59 UTC  

because you are testing what they need

2020-01-28 23:43:12 UTC  

What you're essentially saying then it is inevitable that vulnerable people will die and suffer

2020-01-28 23:43:25 UTC  

And that's a price worth paying to ensure people who don't need support don't get it

2020-01-28 23:43:27 UTC  

Under UBI yes

2020-01-28 23:43:43 UTC  

vulnerable people will die and suffer under UBI

2020-01-28 23:43:50 UTC  

they're dying now

2020-01-28 23:43:53 UTC  

Yep

2020-01-28 23:43:54 UTC  

and in higher numbers

2020-01-28 23:44:00 UTC  

You can't say that

2020-01-28 23:44:05 UTC  

UBI hasn't been implemented

2020-01-28 23:44:19 UTC  

well i could cite test cases, but that wouldn't be fair

2020-01-28 23:44:23 UTC  

UBI wouldn't be cut off

2020-01-28 23:44:31 UTC  

Welfare can be

2020-01-28 23:44:37 UTC  

And is excessively

2020-01-28 23:44:42 UTC  

I don't argue for a welfare system where it can be

2020-01-28 23:45:21 UTC  

Then you probably ought to just end at "The current welfare system is flawed and harms the people it's supposed to protect"

2020-01-28 23:45:56 UTC  

Dunno why I'd need to say that when I can also point out UBI would do the same

2020-01-28 23:46:47 UTC  

you have no proof it would do the same

2020-01-28 23:46:53 UTC  

like you said, it hasn't been tried

2020-01-28 23:47:11 UTC  

so all we can say with certainty is that the current system is flawed

2020-01-28 23:47:25 UTC  

I mean if you're proposing a system that would cut money from people then yeah I feel like I can say it would be worse

2020-01-28 23:47:38 UTC  

except it doesnt

2020-01-28 23:47:43 UTC  

But it would

2020-01-28 23:47:50 UTC  

it imposes extra taxes on the middle and top

2020-01-28 23:48:12 UTC  

Except those wouldn't work because taxes aren't just a lever with infinite money

2020-01-28 23:48:45 UTC  

yes, it's a system of diminishing returns