Message from @meratrix

Discord ID: 540622659608772648


2019-01-31 19:51:30 UTC  

and me questioning this

2019-01-31 19:51:33 UTC  

it is that simple

2019-01-31 19:51:38 UTC  

it is not whataboutism

2019-01-31 19:53:20 UTC  

Your asserting something as well. That materialism will suddenly care about something unobservable, and falls fully under spiritualism. Which is contrary to what materialism is at its core. Without that care tech will never develop. Ergo, your assertions are far more grandios than mine, and falls fully under whataboutism fallacies.

2019-01-31 19:53:34 UTC  

how can you know it is unobservable?

2019-01-31 19:54:02 UTC  

you claim there is a dichotomy between spiritualism and materialism, I dismiss this as there is no evidence for it, and posit instead there is knowledge and there is ignorance

2019-01-31 19:54:16 UTC  

you claim something can never be observed, I say I am doubtful

2019-01-31 19:54:46 UTC  

I think you're also just flinging out wordsalad at this point

2019-01-31 19:56:58 UTC  

Science has already said somethings cannot be observed. Like moments before the big bang because things like physics break down.

Your dichotomy of ignorance and knowledge is also flawed, because ignorance is seen as a negative. I wouldnt call it a dichotomy of spiritualism and materialism. But more of a symbiosis. The dichotomy would be "knowledge" (formed of both materialist and spiritualist) and ignorance

2019-01-31 19:57:21 UTC  

there is you claiming that something is forever unobservable, I'm saying that is nonsense. People thought gravitational waves were unobservable, that they might not exist, we developed a way to observe them.

2019-01-31 19:57:25 UTC  

So because i disagree with you, its wordsalad?

2019-01-31 19:58:00 UTC  

Via mathimatics....i doubt mathimatics will aid in this

2019-01-31 19:58:41 UTC  

scientists, with their current knowledge, have said they do not know how to observe something before the big bang

2019-01-31 19:58:47 UTC  

that is not the same as saying "we will never know"

2019-01-31 19:58:59 UTC  

The key i was pointing is that it would take a massive shift of thinking. Gravity was observable, and so materialists delved into it. Post death would start with unobservable. Which is antimaterialist

2019-01-31 19:59:03 UTC  

how is this so hard to fathom?

2019-01-31 19:59:26 UTC  

again with the tired materialist spiritualist nonsense, I think we're done here

2019-01-31 19:59:33 UTC  

The reason we cannot observe before the big bang is not necessarily because physics "breaks down", it's because the way we observe the early universe is through light, and that means that we can only observe from the big bang forward because all possible matter and/or energy was in a singularity.

2019-01-31 20:00:30 UTC  

Actually most of that is visual of the early universe then shifted into physics algyrithyms. It "breaks down" at the point of singularity.

2019-01-31 20:00:56 UTC  

Similar to gravity on the quantum

2019-01-31 20:01:26 UTC  

It doesn't break down. It's just that anything that would have existed before that, including light, would have become part of that singularity again, meaning it no longer has meaning to us in any recognizable way, it's just a big jumble.

2019-01-31 20:02:22 UTC  

And actually i misspoke it isnt the singularity itself. Our ability stops milliseconds after the "big bang"

2019-01-31 20:02:36 UTC  

Hence why we dont know the cause

2019-01-31 20:02:46 UTC  

Say for example, the theory about the Great Crunch is true. Well, if that is true than there was a universe before ours, and it eventually collapsed on itself. We can't observe this previous universe through light because it all collapsed into a singularity. Thus anything that maybe we could have observed would have also been crushed into that singularity and become unrecognizable.

2019-01-31 20:04:44 UTC  

But thats a guess. And one of many tbh, especially if you enter into multiverse theory

2019-01-31 20:05:10 UTC  

yes of course, it could for example be that we are the first and only ever universe. And that the great rip theory could be true Or the great freeze.

2019-01-31 20:05:13 UTC  

The multi bang theory not the crunch

2019-01-31 20:06:20 UTC  

Isnt there also a versiom of the multidimensional theory that explains the universe creation?

2019-01-31 20:06:41 UTC  

But what I'm getting at is that the reason we cannot observe anything before the big bang is because to us, essentially nothing existed before it. Anything that may have would have been made just into a jumble by being crushed into a singularity.

2019-01-31 20:07:01 UTC  

Its milliseconds after is the limit

2019-01-31 20:07:12 UTC  

Not even the singularity itself

2019-01-31 20:07:18 UTC  

yes, I know. I'm going through my point with multiple examples.

2019-01-31 20:09:00 UTC  

But again. This became a perview of the spiritualists as well, as another theory. And tbh until we can know, if ever, it isnt any less valid technically. Because until observable, we never know.

2019-01-31 20:10:00 UTC  

And that sates the common man. It doesnt discredit scientists who explore it, it simply lets the common man focus on other aspects of life.

2019-01-31 20:11:29 UTC  

Because without those who simply ascribe things to the unknown or spiritual, products wouldnt be produced to allow scientists the free time to focus on such things that really have little to do with day to day life.

2019-01-31 20:13:00 UTC  

Anywho, good discussion Mera. I have to go get ready for my day to day aspects of life.

2019-01-31 20:14:08 UTC  

👌 I gotta go explain to someone on reddit that being an immigrant is not mutually exclusive to being a snob. lol

2019-01-31 20:14:44 UTC  

Lol have fun with that. Thats a mutual exclusiveness i have never heard before lol.

2019-01-31 20:17:40 UTC  

<:pepe_why:378719408367075333> MFW the comments keeps getting downvoted because people assume by saying this I just really hate immigrants.

2019-01-31 20:18:48 UTC  

downvotes don't matter

2019-01-31 20:19:56 UTC  

plenty of immigrants are snobs