The Israelites were the people of the covenant to who Yahweh revealed Himself to. We now have a new covenant in Christ, and so anyone who believes in who Christ is, what He did, and tries daily to follow Him can call themselves Christians

So yes, some Jews can be considered pagans, but they still worship Yahweh, and have ignored the truth of Christ

But that doesn't make their religion false, it's just an outline of the new covenant

A shadow, if you will

yeah ok i follow this far.

So some are like pseudo christians like that sect u talked about

but that does them no good at all though since there is no salvation outside the church?

I consider the Messianic's to still be Christian, it's just they believed the renouncement of the Mosaic laws to be only for the Gentiles

but if yahweh foresaw the jews' rejection of jesus

does that mean he meant to signal that worship of him is enough

or do all jews go to hell

despite their chosen title

it'd be rather cruel of him to put the jews on that path

i dont think u could answer that question in any other way then u would with prots etc

despite knowing the horrid outcome

Jewish law demands blood as payment of sin, hence the sacrifices of sheep and goats. Worship alone was not enough to satisfy. With the new covenant, Christ paid the price through His crucifixion. Jews have the option of believing He was the Messiah, or to continue their old ways

free will etc

^

Although Calvanists would argue that

But yeah, in the end Jews are at worst to be compared with pagans, and at best Westboro baptist church? lol

@Korkza but is it truly a matter of free will

if god can foresee everything

We experience time sequentially, and so we can choose the next steps from our current points

God experiences it sequentially

He gives us paths and choices, but He knows what our next steps are

It's a tough one to wrap your head around

Yeah this is why i just stick to tell people i dont worship mary lol

Oh man, don't even get me started on that

yeah. no idk if there could just be some clear lines and not 580 millions of weird interpretations thatd be great thanks.

@Z3 so, if jews continue those sacrificial traditions

they'd still go to heaven

No

There is a new covenant

@Korkza From my understanding, it was introduced as a way to normalise the Roman public (who were used to polytheism) to the idea of Christianity by introducing 'saint worship' into it. I might be wrong there, if someone wants to correct me, but that's what I've gathered from research

well i dont know about that. but what i know is that the church has teached intercession for atleast 1800 years. cuz thats where the earliest mention of it in text (That we know now)

And id imagine. or i hope atleast

that if it isnt true

someone would have showed up and said, dude this is wrong. alot sooner then the reformation

The Eastern Orthodox and Coptic's don't teach it, and they're pretty much theologically unchanged since Paul preached to them

and also. if it doesnot work. why does it matter since god hears all he still hears your prayer, and you are not worshipping them anyway so

@Z3 it just doesn't make sense to me, that it invalidated the old way to get to heaven