Message from @Mozalbete ⳩

Discord ID: 550987475057770506


2019-03-01 10:22:11 UTC  

Wow, what was before a bunch of particles in arbitrary regions of space, are now a bunch of particles in arbitrary regions of space. Big deal

2019-03-01 10:22:38 UTC  

"becomes a husk" is a romantic way of describing what doesn't really have any significance in the material world

2019-03-01 10:22:53 UTC  

But, can you give a straightforward answer to my question? Do I have a soul that will exist after I die? What is this soul? How long will it exist? How do you know?

2019-03-01 10:23:11 UTC  

And what you call "qualitative difference" is only a difference because you, as an individual, identify it as such, not because there is any intrinsic difference in the impersonal, external world

2019-03-01 10:23:29 UTC  

You do have a soul that will exist after death, because death affects the body

2019-03-01 10:23:57 UTC  

We can say of the soul what is revealed to us, or what we can infer though phylosophy, or theology, or similar sciences

2019-03-01 10:24:02 UTC  

Bro, I've seen animals die. I know there's a qualitative difference after. The body was just a vehicle for the mind that animates it.

2019-03-01 10:24:23 UTC  

The mind is a verb. It's perfectly consistent with materialism.

2019-03-01 10:24:25 UTC  

Which one? That you, as an individual, liked seeing some cluster of particles changing their position in space

2019-03-01 10:24:29 UTC  

The mind is part of the body

2019-03-01 10:24:35 UTC  

It is an organ, a bunch of particles.

2019-03-01 10:24:48 UTC  

That is, the brain, which is what you refer to as "mind"

2019-03-01 10:25:14 UTC  

It animates something as much as my hand animates a rock by throwing it

2019-03-01 10:25:25 UTC  

So I have a soul then? Nice. So, how long will it exist?

2019-03-01 10:25:40 UTC  

You ask that because you are used to material things degrading

2019-03-01 10:26:14 UTC  

A projection of material properties, but since the soul can't be erosed, or undergo similar things, there is no reason why it would disappear, and we with it

2019-03-01 10:26:47 UTC  

I'm just seeing if you believe in actual infinities.

2019-03-01 10:26:59 UTC  

And we are said by the prophet and Christ how the soul is eternal. And those claims are backed up by many prophecies, and miracles witnessed by people who died for them

2019-03-01 10:27:03 UTC  

There are several infinites

2019-03-01 10:27:24 UTC  

There is the idea that there is no reason why something would stop

2019-03-01 10:27:30 UTC  

Which is perfectly possible, it keeps going

2019-03-01 10:27:59 UTC  

There is the idea that something has been going on "for an infinite time", which is impossible, because it implies that an infinite amount of times/events have come to an end, which contradicts infinity

2019-03-01 10:29:16 UTC  

I don't want to commit heresy, but I have a hard time getting around zeno's paradox concerning actual infinities. I also don't see why that means that something has to stop. The bible seems to imply infinity for sure.

2019-03-01 10:29:40 UTC  

Things don't have to stop for no reason

2019-03-01 10:29:51 UTC  

Umm, so I have this soul that will go up to heaven, right?

2019-03-01 10:30:00 UTC  

THat's the point of your religion?

2019-03-01 10:30:09 UTC  

It doesnt ahve to necessarely go to Heaven, if it dooms itself

2019-03-01 10:30:20 UTC  

The soul is given everything it needs to go to Heaven

2019-03-01 10:30:21 UTC  

Where else would it go? Hell?

2019-03-01 10:30:40 UTC  

Do souls go to hell? Do they exist there forever? Is it bad?

2019-03-01 10:30:43 UTC  

If we reject God, and God's grace, then Hell it is

2019-03-01 10:31:07 UTC  

We know that the nature of sin is suffering, which of course implies suffering in one way or another. And it is forever

2019-03-01 10:31:54 UTC  

Now some people ask themselves

2019-03-01 10:32:17 UTC  

I hate to throw a bone to the atheists, but that sounds totally ghoulish. Look, I hate groups of evil people on this earth too, but even I don't believe that Catholics deserve to go to hell forever. That's overkill.

2019-03-01 10:33:19 UTC  

"If I, who am but a random person, would be merciful enough to not to give anyone such a punishment, how could God, who is by definition infinitely merciful, doom someone to Hell". People who think that usually project our fear of something that "goes on", which is in the end worse than the punishment itself

2019-03-01 10:33:20 UTC  

Scripture just says that the wages of sin is death. This thing about hell is based on the idea of the eternal soul. It's a few degrees removed from scripture.

2019-03-01 10:33:44 UTC  

The punishments of Hell are ****deserved****

2019-03-01 10:34:12 UTC  

Hell is mentioned constantly by Christ, for example, as well as the punishment of the unjust

2019-03-01 10:34:18 UTC  

Both the mercy, and the justice of God

2019-03-01 10:34:49 UTC  

Alright, I'm not going to try and talk you out of it. Ehh, Christ was a Jew. He didn't believe in this fiery torture chamber you guys came up with hundreds of years later.

2019-03-01 10:34:59 UTC  

Christ mentions Hell