Message from @Mozalbete ⳩
Discord ID: 550986137355681792
Ehh, it's like the great created clockwork. How is that prideful? I'm looking at God's creation the way Robert Boyle did. You are looking at creation and assuming a fundamental substance exists aside from the plane material, and it's totally ad hoc. This is basically Chemistry vs Alchemy.
I can deal with non-physical things while believing in materialism.
I'm just not making the nonsensical, arbitrary assumption that the only things that exist are those that have length or whatever
Matter is not some fundamental thing that is in the basis of reality
Do you believe in a human soul that transcends death?
Is it different from animals?
Of course I do, because death is just the movement of some particles and chemicals or whatever, there is nothing from the material point of view that fundamentally changes
In other words: if thereisn't life of the soul after the events known as death, there was no life to begin with
It's kind of like when I crack a CD in half. The CD will never work again.
So, I have a soul that will exist after I die?
Because "working" just means that some process that tries to spin it and read data will work
in the case of the CD
The soul doesn't disappear because some material particles move in some way. There is an important connection to the body, so death is important, but there is literally no reason to think that death annihilates the soul.
Can you affirm that I have a soul that will exist after I die?
If you define "life" as the flow of some impulses or chemicals or whatever in some arbitrary region of space, sure, there is nothing after death. But that definition of life makes life completely empty of any value or special.
The obvious question is "how do you know?", but I'd like to just flesh out your beliefs first.
Well, I know that death is just the movement of some arbitrary particles in space
Nothing in the material world has changed in a significant way
To accept that death is something significant, there must be something beyond the material things affected by death
I don't see death as arbitrary. There's a qualitative difference between someone who's died and someone before they die. Their body becomes a husk.
Wow, what was before a bunch of particles in arbitrary regions of space, are now a bunch of particles in arbitrary regions of space. Big deal
"becomes a husk" is a romantic way of describing what doesn't really have any significance in the material world
But, can you give a straightforward answer to my question? Do I have a soul that will exist after I die? What is this soul? How long will it exist? How do you know?
And what you call "qualitative difference" is only a difference because you, as an individual, identify it as such, not because there is any intrinsic difference in the impersonal, external world
You do have a soul that will exist after death, because death affects the body
We can say of the soul what is revealed to us, or what we can infer though phylosophy, or theology, or similar sciences
Bro, I've seen animals die. I know there's a qualitative difference after. The body was just a vehicle for the mind that animates it.
The mind is a verb. It's perfectly consistent with materialism.
Which one? That you, as an individual, liked seeing some cluster of particles changing their position in space
The mind is part of the body
It is an organ, a bunch of particles.
That is, the brain, which is what you refer to as "mind"
It animates something as much as my hand animates a rock by throwing it
So I have a soul then? Nice. So, how long will it exist?
You ask that because you are used to material things degrading
A projection of material properties, but since the soul can't be erosed, or undergo similar things, there is no reason why it would disappear, and we with it
I'm just seeing if you believe in actual infinities.
And we are said by the prophet and Christ how the soul is eternal. And those claims are backed up by many prophecies, and miracles witnessed by people who died for them
There are several infinites
There is the idea that there is no reason why something would stop
Which is perfectly possible, it keeps going