Message from @Mozalbete ⳩

Discord ID: 550986696913715200


2019-03-01 10:17:18 UTC  

It's kind of like when I crack a CD in half. The CD will never work again.

2019-03-01 10:17:42 UTC  

So, I have a soul that will exist after I die?

2019-03-01 10:17:46 UTC  

Because "working" just means that some process that tries to spin it and read data will work

2019-03-01 10:17:53 UTC  

in the case of the CD

2019-03-01 10:19:13 UTC  

The soul doesn't disappear because some material particles move in some way. There is an important connection to the body, so death is important, but there is literally no reason to think that death annihilates the soul.

2019-03-01 10:19:54 UTC  

Can you affirm that I have a soul that will exist after I die?

2019-03-01 10:20:15 UTC  

If you define "life" as the flow of some impulses or chemicals or whatever in some arbitrary region of space, sure, there is nothing after death. But that definition of life makes life completely empty of any value or special.

2019-03-01 10:20:30 UTC  

The obvious question is "how do you know?", but I'd like to just flesh out your beliefs first.

2019-03-01 10:20:44 UTC  

Well, I know that death is just the movement of some arbitrary particles in space

2019-03-01 10:20:54 UTC  

Nothing in the material world has changed in a significant way

2019-03-01 10:21:21 UTC  

To accept that death is something significant, there must be something beyond the material things affected by death

2019-03-01 10:21:39 UTC  

I don't see death as arbitrary. There's a qualitative difference between someone who's died and someone before they die. Their body becomes a husk.

2019-03-01 10:22:11 UTC  

Wow, what was before a bunch of particles in arbitrary regions of space, are now a bunch of particles in arbitrary regions of space. Big deal

2019-03-01 10:22:38 UTC  

"becomes a husk" is a romantic way of describing what doesn't really have any significance in the material world

2019-03-01 10:22:53 UTC  

But, can you give a straightforward answer to my question? Do I have a soul that will exist after I die? What is this soul? How long will it exist? How do you know?

2019-03-01 10:23:11 UTC  

And what you call "qualitative difference" is only a difference because you, as an individual, identify it as such, not because there is any intrinsic difference in the impersonal, external world

2019-03-01 10:23:29 UTC  

You do have a soul that will exist after death, because death affects the body

2019-03-01 10:23:57 UTC  

We can say of the soul what is revealed to us, or what we can infer though phylosophy, or theology, or similar sciences

2019-03-01 10:24:02 UTC  

Bro, I've seen animals die. I know there's a qualitative difference after. The body was just a vehicle for the mind that animates it.

2019-03-01 10:24:23 UTC  

The mind is a verb. It's perfectly consistent with materialism.

2019-03-01 10:24:25 UTC  

Which one? That you, as an individual, liked seeing some cluster of particles changing their position in space

2019-03-01 10:24:29 UTC  

The mind is part of the body

2019-03-01 10:24:35 UTC  

It is an organ, a bunch of particles.

2019-03-01 10:24:48 UTC  

That is, the brain, which is what you refer to as "mind"

2019-03-01 10:25:14 UTC  

It animates something as much as my hand animates a rock by throwing it

2019-03-01 10:25:25 UTC  

So I have a soul then? Nice. So, how long will it exist?

2019-03-01 10:25:40 UTC  

You ask that because you are used to material things degrading

2019-03-01 10:26:14 UTC  

A projection of material properties, but since the soul can't be erosed, or undergo similar things, there is no reason why it would disappear, and we with it

2019-03-01 10:26:47 UTC  

I'm just seeing if you believe in actual infinities.

2019-03-01 10:26:59 UTC  

And we are said by the prophet and Christ how the soul is eternal. And those claims are backed up by many prophecies, and miracles witnessed by people who died for them

2019-03-01 10:27:03 UTC  

There are several infinites

2019-03-01 10:27:24 UTC  

There is the idea that there is no reason why something would stop

2019-03-01 10:27:30 UTC  

Which is perfectly possible, it keeps going

2019-03-01 10:27:59 UTC  

There is the idea that something has been going on "for an infinite time", which is impossible, because it implies that an infinite amount of times/events have come to an end, which contradicts infinity

2019-03-01 10:29:16 UTC  

I don't want to commit heresy, but I have a hard time getting around zeno's paradox concerning actual infinities. I also don't see why that means that something has to stop. The bible seems to imply infinity for sure.

2019-03-01 10:29:40 UTC  

Things don't have to stop for no reason

2019-03-01 10:29:51 UTC  

Umm, so I have this soul that will go up to heaven, right?

2019-03-01 10:30:00 UTC  

THat's the point of your religion?

2019-03-01 10:30:09 UTC  

It doesnt ahve to necessarely go to Heaven, if it dooms itself

2019-03-01 10:30:20 UTC  

The soul is given everything it needs to go to Heaven

2019-03-01 10:30:21 UTC  

Where else would it go? Hell?