@Jay Dubya im sorry im messing with you in my autistic ways

@CRYSS ⳩ i heard

i hope sarah becomes pope

karaboga in the vatican lmao

Cdl. Burke for pope

any of those two tbh

Mfw i have to defend the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos every single day from dumb prots

Tfw no Fr. Youngtrad to become Bishop of Rome

Tfw the orthodoxy starts shitting on your pope *Latin Empire intensifies*

Tfw the Tsar won’t come back

the craziest prot i knew was some non denom thot who unironically said that Christ was gay because he had a homosexual affair with Peter

Perpetual virginity/immaculate conception I honestly don't get, isn't the point of Mary that she was a completely normal human being who had more kids after Jesus? Seems like it would cheapen Christ's human nature to necessitate some kind of special-made divine vessel to come into the world to redeem normal sinners.

Not to start WWIII or anything, but honestly I've just never understood the reasoning

It cheapens christ's divine nature to suggest she had children with a normal man after literally birthing God

Even Martin Luther agreed that Mary was a perpetual virgin

Not to mention there's no scriptural basis for it

And no, Mary wasn't a normal human being, she was especially chosen by God

@SUPER MALE VITALITY™ nobody questioned perpetual virginity until the late 1600 or early 1700s

It's not about making sense though. It's actually just that it's a tradition that goes back very early. The reason it became important though is that Helvedius used it as a point of argument and used bad hermeneutics for his conclusions. It was more of a point about hermeneutics than anything else

The point of Mary was to literally bear God physically inside her like is that not a crazy thought

He said, look! It says "until" here (In Greek); therefore, Mary didn't remain a virgin forever. Then everyone else was like, if you apply that universally to the Bible in other spots, it destroys many passages.

That's why it got pushed so hard in Chrysostom and Jerome

I mean beyond the special choosing. I don't think Christ's divine nature has any bearing from His human parent, God is God, but if Christ needed a designer human to be who he is that would mean He is not representative of a typical human undergoing a typical human experience, which calls into question whether he is fit to serve as a model to be expected of us. Mary being a normal human reconciles that. I guess the perpetual virginity isn't as big a thing as the immaculate conception in that regard, but it's still a bit strange, especially considering Jesus had brothers

ooohhh here we go

he definitely didn't have brothers

thats a translation/cultural thing from the greek

in the ancient world and a lot of cultures today no real distinction in language was made between siblings and cousins

This is true

they use the same word they use for brother in other contexts where it can only mean cousin

Furthermore, it makes no sense that Jesus handed Mary to a non-blood relative when he dies if he says real brothers

Like, that was standard procedure at the time. The only reason he would do that is that he doesn't have any blood related brothers

yeah, for Jesus to give Mary to John to look after, would be a huge massive cultural disrespect for her and his family if Mary actually had other children to care for her

Immaculate Conception is also not supported in the early fathers though. You see it pop up in the 300s if I recall and the EO, OO, Nestorians, and Luther believe in Immaculate Purification instead

All of this is addressed here http://newadvent.org/fathers/3007.htm

You see things pop up when people oppose them so there is a need for writtings about it

Or when a topic first comes up

But still, the authority of something is not whether or not a Church Father said something. That is a good guide for most things but there are authoritative proclamations that are above those

Makes sense I guess, honestly the more I mull it over, it doesn't have nearly the issues immaculate conception has, more just a quirk of tradition that isn't easy to clearly justify

But I'll read the link, Marian issues in general just tend to give me pause seeing how quickly their corruptions introduce cancer into the church

Being weary of something tends to do that