Message from @yuma_8

Discord ID: 604415625787604996


2019-07-26 20:49:28 UTC  

so the ratio is metaphorical

2019-07-26 20:49:31 UTC  

yep

2019-07-26 20:49:32 UTC  

yes

2019-07-26 20:49:48 UTC  

it's just referred to as "blackstone's ratio" because william blackstone is the guy that coined the phrase

2019-07-26 20:49:49 UTC  

it could have said better 100 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be punished

2019-07-26 20:49:55 UTC  

i know

2019-07-26 20:50:00 UTC  

I believe that's Benjamin Franklin's version of it

2019-07-26 20:50:04 UTC  

it's just not feasible as a policy

2019-07-26 20:50:23 UTC  

But it *is* what informs policy

2019-07-26 20:50:25 UTC  

I thought it was Blackstone's Formulation?

2019-07-26 20:50:28 UTC  

why not 1000 guilty men?

2019-07-26 20:50:30 UTC  

At least that's how Tim refers to it

2019-07-26 20:50:41 UTC  

yeah, I've heard both

2019-07-26 20:50:41 UTC  

why not a million

2019-07-26 20:50:53 UTC  

again, @Clive , you're taking it too literally

2019-07-26 20:50:54 UTC  

You sure Blackstone came up with that? I remember reading that Frederick the Great said something like that.

2019-07-26 20:51:08 UTC  

it's usually attributed to him, at least, @scaevola

2019-07-26 20:51:17 UTC  

if we can't take it literally then we can't take it seriously

2019-07-26 20:51:28 UTC  

it's all allegorical then it lacks weight

2019-07-26 20:51:33 UTC  

but i don't think it lacks weight

2019-07-26 20:51:59 UTC  

You guys are right

2019-07-26 20:52:04 UTC  

It's referred to as both

2019-07-26 20:52:05 UTC  

i think the point of it is better ALL people guilty of anything go free than 1 innocent person get punished

2019-07-26 20:52:21 UTC  

no, that's not it at all

2019-07-26 20:52:24 UTC  

I mean, kind of

2019-07-26 20:52:40 UTC  

but the idea is foundational to America's judicial system

2019-07-26 20:52:48 UTC  

well you cant have it both ways, its either literal 10 or metaphorical X

2019-07-26 20:52:48 UTC  

it's essentially a fancy way of talking about presumption of innocence

2019-07-26 20:53:05 UTC  

If we're going by that standard then no justice system will ever suffice

2019-07-26 20:53:07 UTC  

like with kavanaugh, presumed innocent

2019-07-26 20:53:41 UTC  

let's just make it better and not rely on old quips and adages

2019-07-26 20:54:15 UTC  

Old quips and adages express a valuable idea

2019-07-26 20:54:19 UTC  

Frederick the Great>Blackstone(not great)

2019-07-26 20:57:56 UTC  

The problem is that innocent man will be wrongly committed regardless if done by the State, or the individual. For example, let's say you let go a certain number of guilty men to hold consistent with not wrongly convicting anyone of Innocents. Those who are guilty could be let go, and then wrongly execute acts of malovence upon one or greater people among the populous.

2019-07-26 20:58:42 UTC  

And unfortunately this may not even be resolved through AI. It's a never ending process until proven otherwise.

2019-07-26 20:59:16 UTC  

From the wiki, "It is of more importance to the community that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt should be punished; for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world, that all of them cannot be punished....when innocence itself, is brought to the bar and condemned, especially to die, the subject will exclaim, 'it is immaterial to me whether I behave well or ill, for virtue itself is no security.' And if such a sentiment as this were to take hold in the mind of the subject that would be the end of all security whatsoever"

2019-07-26 20:59:25 UTC  

Quote by John Adams

2019-07-26 21:00:17 UTC  

founding fathers are so eloquent

2019-07-26 21:04:43 UTC  

Also the idea of throwing innocent people in jail, just to get the criminals sounds like sacrificing the individual for the society or the greater good so to speak. Thats how lefties talk.

2019-07-26 21:05:35 UTC  

That's how communists talk