So then there is repentance after death?

Okay so your point is God can't exist because people get tortured at birth?

No

Because people die before they can do what he says?

Just not the Nicene Creed's definition of God.

Pretty much any offshoot of Catholicism I cannot get behind.

eternal suffering is the fate of chosing to be far from God,

It's not His punishment

When do you choose?

Does it have to be in this life?

Yes

Then the cananites were never given that choice

unless you believe in purgatory

evangelical denominations do not

read the verse with the annoying foot notes

"The times of ignorance God overlooked, but know he commands all people everywhere to repent" acts 17:30

So then if you never heard of Christ you are held to a different standard?

I would say so

So, forgetting the cananites for now, what about people that were born after Christ died but couldn't have heard of him (i.e American indians, Japan etc)

but that is way out of my league

My take is that evolution is God's game. Just as natural selection winnows the gene pool, spiritual selection winnows the 'spirit pool'. God is He who selects. And I presume He is selecting us *for* some greater purpose.

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

Not exactly apropos of the exact discussion I guess.

@ThePortugueseGuy that is reasonable.

@uncephalized does that mean our soul or consciousness exist before God?

Or does he intentionally make us to fail?

But even that way is the blood of Christ over their lives that saves.

I've had a similar discussion with my dad but I can't remember just about any of what either of us brought up, and I've spent the past twenty or so minutes trying

I don't necessarily ascribe to the 'all-knowing, all powerful' version of God @DJ_Anuz. It may be that Creation is an experiment to produce moral souls.

It may not be possible to do so without creating castoffs as part of the selection process.

@uncephalized that's fine. :P though most Christian's would see that as excomunicatable :P

I'm not an avowed Christian, so that doesn't confront me.

In fact I don't know what I am.

I personally find the Mormon view of a pre-existence and eternal soul fascinating.

The arguments against Mormonism tends to be mostly about the origination of the theology rather than attacking the theology itself. The framework is pretty logically consistent when you delve deep into the mechanics of how it works.

Do you understand now why we Christians say it's the SAME God in different missions at the time? @DJ_Anuz

And it matches a lot of obscure old testament literature and symbolism.

Because the Catholic Church needed to get the approval of pagans to create a unified church in Rome.

What my dad and I eventually came to was that there might be the chance for redemption after death, but the bible doesn't talk about it, so we have to go about evangelizing as if there isn't that chance, and spending time worrying about what we can't know helps no one

@Draco552 you'll notice Christ told the thief on the cross that he would be with Christ in paradise that same day, before Christ went up to see the father. (As Christ told Mary after the resurrection.) Which means he couldn't have been referring to heaven.

I'm confused as to where you're getting that it wasn't heaven, explain like i'm five please

I cannot parse that sentence

When Christ was resurrected after thirty days, Mary went to touch him and he said touch me not (though more modern translations are "don't be clingy") stating that he hadn't yet ascended to see the father.

That means that Christ didn't stay in heaven between the time of death and resurrection.