You can tell people What they should be because it works best (for most people, not everyone), you don't get to Make people be that.

Just because people do crappy or unwise things with freedom, doesn't make the freedom to do things less important.

^ Low resolution view at Freedom and it's consequences. imho

Not sure if you mean it as a good or bad thing lol.

VERY bad thing Shadows! You should be completely ashamed of your poor analysis on why Freedom matters.

However, since we're pretty much best friends. There is always room for forgiveness.

Freedom matters for many different reasons.. I gave one, not sure how that's bad but ok :)

It seems a bit incomplete, if not outright dishonest. The negative trade-off for Freedom was completely absent. I hold you to a higher standard Shadows! Perhaps I was all wrong about you. :C

To be clear. I'm not mad.

I'm just disappointed. 😔

We tend to have an incomplete view of what the full spectrum of viable options are for a given situation anyway. While people are allowed to fuck up, openness in "allowed" options (distinct from "approved" options) means they can also pursue a non-standard, potentially superior solution. Further, exploration of this variety allows us to discover what options are bad in the first place, and why

I said freedom has consequences.... That doesn't mean we give up freedom.
And i was giving 1 example of why.
Saying i have the freedom to choose what i eat right now, doesn't negate everything else freedom is important for... @Deleted User

Or all the risks that come with it.

But that's what freedom means, to risk.

Marriage is an institution that shouldn’t be compromised. It is serious.

Almost everything in life is serious...

Marriage is the foundation of society. Everything else depends on it

foundation of *western society?

In the same vein, the rearing of children is probably one of the most important jobs in society, and it's treated like trash these days

Maybe its the children's fault.

not treated like trash in conservative communities.

Oh right, I was gonna bring this up before
So community building. Shit ain't an ethnostate, so unless you're yeeting everyone else your community has to be based around something that isn't A: religious or B: ethnocentric - nation, shared ideals, bodypillow collections, whatever
How do you replicate the sort of communal focus that you can get out of a church community without the church? To a certain extent this has to be tailored to the community it's used in, but it's definitely not an impossibility overall

Other issue: Your community sticks together. Everything is good
How do you prevent stagnation - people banding together against new ideas, regardless of their merit. The risk of groupthink will probably increase over time, assuming nothing fractures
How do you prevent bias in social arbitration - one of the oft cited issues with small towns is abuse of influence and one's reputation never leaving them. Obviously a "Path to Redemption" is needed, but even before that is complete, people ought to get a fair hearing

Short answer : libertarians don't care about anything and will just rot in their bunkers while the world crumbles die to their stagnation.

Long answer: the Golden Path

And for the non meme answer?

Its a good thing you don't strawman anything... People might understand what you are saying at some point

@Shadows lol, you make me laugh <3

@Beemann Can we start a bodypillow collection society?

See the problem is I would have to jihad all who have trash waifus

which is everyone I have met thus far

@Beemann so far in the US, we've done well by building a civic religion and history based on the revolution

That's fine by me, i'm all for return fire on your jihad.

That's why there is such influence for our national symbols, like the flag etc. We had to build a nation from nothing, compared to the Germans who had a shared history

so would you be of the position then that the best solution is to focus primarily on reversing the past X number of decades of KGB subversion? That general direction?

Yes, very much so

The KGB has spent decades turning people against their own government

what did I just walk into?

The ultimate subversion

I think that will become a top 3 focus regardless, I just get the feeling that a few other systems need a bit more than maintenance

I thought it was just going to be Sal going nuts about divorce

nah I'm bringing up societal reconstruction again

@Beemann my respect for you has skyrocketed. No one seems to see the need to turn back Soviet subversion