but still by that metric

what we see here is the coupling of civilization to state is an observable pattern

and we cann see why

civilizations requires order

saying "ancom will never exist because throughout all history, states have been with civilizations" is like saying
"men will never go to the moon because through all history men have never left the atmosphere"

order requires the threat and capability of violence

says who?

and that violence needs to be organized

says who?

yeah

Precedent

> order requires the threat and capability of violence
says who

as @..... said

but i can disprove it right now

Precedent

i dont need violence to get some kids in a classroom to behave

literally every interaction you have in a civilization requires it

theyll do it if i ask nicely

yes you do?

If they're disciplined, well-behaved children

Lots of kids won't do it if you ask nicely

but the point is, some did

@Deleted User you do know that the threat of violence still exists, right?

in that classroom, if a kid doesnt listen and disrupts the room

> literally every interaction you have in a civilization requires it
so this right here is disproved

theyre removed

by force

so yes

no?

it does have an implication of violence

ive seen this very thing happen many times

and ive seen opposites

if a kid continues to be disruptive, violent or so on

so your absolute statement is disproved

what happens?

no it isnt

yeah it has

if i a police officer arrests me

and i comply

that doesnt mean the threat of violence doesnt exist

it just means i complied