Message from @National Trotskyist

Discord ID: 522736574476189698


2018-12-13 11:23:36 UTC  

[...]
Hugo Chavez originally also began as a democratic socialist, surprisingly, this was ideology of his party besides "Bolivarianism", whatever it meant. In long term, he (and Maduro) didn't introduce much beyond a glorified social-democracy. And overrelation with China, Venezuela is extremely tied to China. This is the price of sozi rule I imagine. How come Scandinavia does so good (Denmark have bigger private sector than Venezuela, where 70% of capital is in private hands), but not them? I guess, they can't manage their shit better lol. Today it's sanctions and funding anti-government riots largely too. There was an attempt at coup, funded by the US, I believe around 2002.
Evo Morales of Bolivia you could argue is either some kind of a socialist or sozi, he managed his shit much better. I'm not sure what's even his ideology and that of his party. I guess it's just left-wing populism. Bolivian Gaddafist who himself was white hated him and his government, said they incited the "white genocide". He claims to be a Catholic, but also mix it up with Pagan beliefs. Really odd guy. He is one of the few Native American leaders of the region, the region even had.
Left-wing populist also won in Mexico recently, over PRI (they caused huge anti-clerical persecutions) and PAN (which arose as a guerilla during said persecutions), the mainstream parties, much like Bolsonaro (similar party to PRI, PT hold power for over 8+ year). Before a similar left-wing populist also won in Peru, but didn't achieve much. So I don't expect much from him.
[...]

2018-12-13 11:24:31 UTC  

The "leftists" who ruled Brazil and Chile, varied from social-democrats to social-liberals. Like the Silva family of Brazil of PT. PRI was openly fascist (at least economically, as historians describe it) during time (funny Trotsky fled there), to social-democrat, to party of power like PT. Petistas fucked up Brazil so good I'm not surprised Bolsonaro won. In Chile, it's said that the econimic miracle is thanks to reforms of those social-democrats after Pinochet gave away power, rather than his Chicago Boy neoliberal economic reforms, but can't say for sure.

2018-12-13 11:24:38 UTC  

Hope it describes it for you for good @Mr. X .

2018-12-13 11:24:52 UTC  

US&A variously tried to fight with democratic elections of those leftist parties, by funding coups.

2018-12-13 11:24:59 UTC  

Despite claiming to be bastion of democracy lol.

2018-12-13 11:25:03 UTC  

What this describing again?

2018-12-13 11:25:14 UTC  

You asked me if Chile had communism.

2018-12-13 11:25:22 UTC  

I described you leftist movements of Latin America.

2018-12-13 11:25:35 UTC  

A simple yes or no would be enough but okay

2018-12-13 11:25:39 UTC  

Sorry.

2018-12-13 11:25:46 UTC  

But no, Chile never had any Marxist-Leninist party in power.

2018-12-13 11:25:57 UTC  

It's strange they and Bolivia like hentai.

2018-12-13 11:26:18 UTC  

Either way the reason America was so hostile against communism is because of the ussr's global call for communist revolution of course

2018-12-13 11:26:34 UTC  

They already had to worry about cuba too

2018-12-13 11:26:45 UTC  

and you know how that ended up like

2018-12-13 11:26:56 UTC  

Yeah they also persecuted other ideologically different parties before.

2018-12-13 11:27:15 UTC  

I think there was persecution of fascism and Japanese citizens during WWII for example.

2018-12-13 11:27:47 UTC  

The thing is they not only opposed open communists, but also various other strains of leftism. Which was largely unaligned to the USSR.

2018-12-13 11:28:04 UTC  

Really? Like?

2018-12-13 11:28:24 UTC  

I believe even theology of liberation, which wasn't open to communists, due to their persecution of religion.

2018-12-13 11:28:31 UTC  

("Contras" of Nicaragua.)

2018-12-13 11:28:52 UTC  

No as in what other parties

2018-12-13 11:29:03 UTC  

the fascism and japanese seems justified to me though

2018-12-13 11:29:32 UTC  

With what happened at pearl harbor

2018-12-13 11:29:39 UTC  

and the japanese traitors

2018-12-13 11:29:48 UTC  

What other parties. There were few really.
I believe either German US Bund, or US First of Lindbergh were persecuted. The latter were against war with Germany, much like Mosley in Britain.

2018-12-13 11:30:02 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/313606549543190528/522736955734360064/FDR_fishing_with_Oswald_Mosley.jpg

2018-12-13 11:30:09 UTC  

german us bund? What's that?

2018-12-13 11:30:17 UTC  

Japanese citizens were persecuted in horrible way and racist caricatures were used against Japanese in general.

2018-12-13 11:30:19 UTC  

Always found that hilarious.

2018-12-13 11:30:37 UTC  

It was NSDAP-approved German US party.

2018-12-13 11:30:49 UTC  

Funny, as "Bund" was generally name of Yiddish parties opposed to Zionism.

2018-12-13 11:30:54 UTC  

So were the germans in war times

2018-12-13 11:30:59 UTC  

The japs were ruthless

2018-12-13 11:31:32 UTC  

NSDAP? That explains it

2018-12-13 11:31:40 UTC  

Yeah they wer their satellite.

2018-12-13 11:32:02 UTC  

Any unjustified persecutions though?

2018-12-13 11:33:39 UTC  

Outside of that, I don't think so. But as you can see not just communist movements were persecuted.
Fascism didn't had broadly such a support in Latin America, for them to overthrow such governments.
You had... I think, Peronists, where many nazis fled (such as "Hitler fled to Argentina" thing CIA files released), Integralists of Brazil who never took power, Falangists of Latin America and I think that's all really.
Strasser also fled to Canada, Canada had its own BUF and NatSoc movement.

2018-12-13 11:34:18 UTC  

Out of those only Juan Peron was really in power.

2018-12-13 11:34:59 UTC  

Ah so the US didnt do anything evil to latin america then