If this consistent event shows one thing, it is that marxist socialism will always be subverted by capitalism in the end.

It happened in the USSR, it happened in vietnam, it happened in cambodia, it happened it laos, it happened in cuba, and it has always turned out this way.

Realistically, it is doubtable that any marxist socialist country will ever exist again because of this, people don't want marxist socialism, neither do those in politics either.

Xi won't change anything, he may have implemented himself as dictator, but there is no way he will ever bring back marxist socialism to china.

Contrary to what china claims, they aren't communist, or marxist, they are hardly even dem socs, they are capitalists through and through.

hey guys

Hi dick

@Deleted User Ackchyually it didn't happen in Cuba. And some people believe China is just building up the productive forces before going full-blown commie again. That's even the official line of the party.

Cuba is capitalist now pal.

i mean, i think there's always the possibility that since China's exposed itself to globalism that there's not much hope for it now

same for cuba

I don't care what "some people" believe, there is no way that china will ever go marxist ever again.

The private sector in Cuba employs less than 30% of the population. Raul said he would like to see a "prosperous and sustainable socialism" which basically means something along the lines of market socialism. Diaz-Canel wants that too it seems, but many senior party leaders are against economic reforms. @Deleted User

slightly off topic, does cuba operate off of a system of labor vouchers or currency? ik they used vouchers at one point but i'm not sure if they still do.

They use the Cuban peso.

As well as the convertible peso.

thank you, that helps a bit when thinking

Most public-sector workers receive the Cuban peso with a minority receiving the convertible peso.

No problem. @mcstubbs

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@Deleted User So then capitalism is present in cuba, and socialism dosen't even exist politically, thanks for admitting that.

@mcstubbs Vouchers I believe were used during the reconstrution period.

@Deleted User It's not so cut and dry. Technically speaking, it's economy is somewhere between socialism and state capitalism. And there are very strong Marxist currents in the Cuban Communist Party. Raul and Diaz-Canel may want to model the economy after that of China, but that doesn't mean it's happened nor does it mean it necessarily will.

So they want to make the country capitalist?

A "Socialist Market Economy" which some believe is a form of State Capitalism.

It is capitalism in pretty much every form, privately owned, little restrictions, and of course, exploits it's workers like slaves.

Interesting to see how so called communist leaders want to model themselves off of china, which has been renowned for the worst working conditions on the planet.

Not true. Their system is predicated on the predominance of public-ownership and state-owned enterprises within the framework of a market economy.

"state capitalism" is an entirely descriptive term
you can't make a state capitalist society
you have to be labelled as one

@Deleted User Then why are private businesses so prominent in china? There are over 40 million privately owned businesses there, and despite china's actions, their private businesses are thriving much more than that of state businesses: https://itif.org/publications/2016/11/29/despite-china-favoring-state-owned-enterprises-its-private-companies-are

@DA GOMMIE JOO Not entirely accurate. According to Bukharin, "State Capitalism" is when all sectors of production and important social institutions fall under state management. He identified it as a particular stage of capitalist development. Lenin also wrote about state capitalism. Of course the concept dates back to the First International. There are various definitions, many of which are non-Marxist.

Lenin allowed for capitalism to thrive in the USSR, despite claiming that he was a marxist, of course, lenin also nearly caused the collapse of the USSR, which is partially why stalin had to remove most of lenin's policies, because if the USSR kept them, it would have collapsed.

Kind of ironic that people call marxism marxist leninism even though lenin was hardly a marxist at all, and favored capitalism a lot.

the NEP was actually pretty successful
it was the command economy under trotsky that did a lot of damage

@Deleted User He introduced the New Economic Policy as an expedient measure given the material conditions. It was necessary at the time as not only was the country a pre-capitalist semi-feudal backwater, but it had just finished undergoing it's "War Communism" phase.

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 >The capitalist economy did better than the communist economy
Really makes you think.

Also, only someone that knows little about Marxist theory would claim that Lenin wasn't a Marxist. He was an Orthodox Marxist until his death.

the NEP wasn't capitalist
it was more of a demsoc economy

kind of like what cuba has

@Deleted User What warcommunism? The civil war ended about a decade before the NEP was put into place, even if people were starving still, the NEP did nothing to help out in that, all it did was allow capitalism to thrive.

@DA GOMMIE JOO#7269 And dem socs are capitalist.