Message from @Geamr

Discord ID: 473133416800583700


2018-07-29 14:16:39 UTC  

If anything this is the biggest lesson of the USSR and China

2018-07-29 14:17:33 UTC  

Eh, it would try to

2018-07-29 14:17:47 UTC  

it's hard to get right apparently

2018-07-29 14:18:23 UTC  

No it won't, it will create a red bureaucracy that becomes the new capitalist class, it could be even worse with the introduction of state capitalism like the USSR and China did. Bakunin foresaw this told Marx and warned about it in his writing and despite all of that it still happened. States are oppressive and the working class cannot be free under one.

2018-07-29 14:19:16 UTC  

Federative, grass roots, direct democratic structures

2018-07-29 14:19:54 UTC  

So we democratize your workplace and then your workplace becomes a political organ for the new commune

2018-07-29 14:20:25 UTC  

you need a large international bureaucratic apparatus to deal with global issues though

2018-07-29 14:21:01 UTC  

perhaps even on a national scale

2018-07-29 14:21:25 UTC  

Not bureaucratic filled with career politicians, but delegates sent and elected from the working class themselves

2018-07-29 14:21:30 UTC  

they would be directly recallbale

2018-07-29 14:21:39 UTC  

Exactly why revolution

2018-07-29 14:22:07 UTC  

And when setting up a new system

2018-07-29 14:22:15 UTC  

You need specialists and state servants that are dedicate tho, you can't run a large apparatus like that without qualified officials

2018-07-29 14:22:26 UTC  

You do not want a large apparatus

2018-07-29 14:22:33 UTC  

the issue of corruption must be tackled effectively through control and transparency

2018-07-29 14:22:39 UTC  

No

2018-07-29 14:22:43 UTC  

yeah you don't want it but you NEED it

2018-07-29 14:22:50 UTC  

How do you need it?

2018-07-29 14:22:59 UTC  

how can your thousands of little councils deal with something like global warming?

2018-07-29 14:23:09 UTC  

something that requires global coordination and action?

2018-07-29 14:23:16 UTC  

or disasters of massive scales

2018-07-29 14:23:37 UTC  

They elect members from those councils to go to a regional council and the regional council elects someone to go to a national council and then they elect someone to go to international councils

2018-07-29 14:24:12 UTC  

but that is in effect a government body, and it needs a bureaucracy to function and implement its policies

2018-07-29 14:24:23 UTC  

A computer determining allocation of resources is not a state

2018-07-29 14:24:32 UTC  

and then you have a global bureaucratic organization run by representatives again

2018-07-29 14:24:44 UTC  

It is not a bureaucracy because people are directly elected and are recallable after the issue is done

2018-07-29 14:24:45 UTC  

computers cannot answer human questions and issues

2018-07-29 14:24:52 UTC  

Meaning they do not hold a permanent title

2018-07-29 14:24:55 UTC  

those people won't be able to do all the work

2018-07-29 14:25:12 UTC  

Then they can open up volunteer positions for working committees

2018-07-29 14:25:16 UTC  

they need expert advisers, bureaucrats to delegate work and research and to draft proposals

2018-07-29 14:25:19 UTC  

and oversee implementation

2018-07-29 14:25:37 UTC  

That can all be done by a working comittee working on one issue that dissolves after the issue

2018-07-29 14:25:50 UTC  

but that is extremely inefficient and disorganized

2018-07-29 14:26:05 UTC  

and you can't deal with urgent issues requiring immediate action well

2018-07-29 14:26:11 UTC  

Not really, it allows for the working class to directly elect who they want dealing with problems

2018-07-29 14:26:18 UTC  

Which issues?

2018-07-29 14:26:28 UTC  

you can't invent new processes and find and vet the right people at any given time easily

2018-07-29 14:26:39 UTC  

you need an institution of some sort i think

2018-07-29 14:26:54 UTC  

it should be controlled by the people of course

2018-07-29 14:27:03 UTC  

You do not vet or find