Message from @Dushman

Discord ID: 489457798841892864


2018-09-12 15:28:37 UTC  

In this context, do you say ideas do not exist in other forms of the world?

2018-09-12 15:28:39 UTC  

These complex reactions, (mood, feelings, memory, cognition, instict, etc) are only influenced by material s

2018-09-12 15:28:45 UTC  

Just solely in the brain meat themselves?

2018-09-12 15:28:59 UTC  

Yes.

2018-09-12 15:29:01 UTC  

aight

2018-09-12 15:29:07 UTC  

There has to be some

2018-09-12 15:29:11 UTC  

evidence to suggest otherwise

2018-09-12 15:29:12 UTC  

I'm in full agreement

2018-09-12 15:29:19 UTC  

Yeah no problem with that

2018-09-12 15:29:23 UTC  

So, as I understand it

2018-09-12 15:29:33 UTC  

Idealism is a false approach to any solution

2018-09-12 15:29:36 UTC  

It's just to me that means it's clear that we have to engage with ideas- they are part of the material conditions!

2018-09-12 15:29:42 UTC  

Since the underlying problems are materialistic

2018-09-12 15:29:44 UTC  

i never said im for idealism

2018-09-12 15:29:46 UTC  

No

2018-09-12 15:30:03 UTC  

but people call baudrillard idealist because he's interested in symbolic relations, not just economic interest

2018-09-12 15:30:04 UTC  

I would say ideas are products of material conditions

2018-09-12 15:30:20 UTC  

but all material conditions are the product of material conditions....

2018-09-12 15:30:21 UTC  

One cannot fix the mental patient by talking him into sanity

2018-09-12 15:30:27 UTC  

We must give him medicine

2018-09-12 15:30:32 UTC  

Nor can it be addressed by prayer

2018-09-12 15:30:41 UTC  

take that religious fokheds

2018-09-12 15:30:52 UTC  

Similarly, one cannot help the wicked, the poor, the lame, and the abused, by merely talking them into sanity

2018-09-12 15:30:56 UTC  

Altho what do you people say about placebo effects?

2018-09-12 15:30:59 UTC  

I think this is an easy excuse though when your ideas are not good enough or you haven't found the right way to communicate

2018-09-12 15:31:14 UTC  

I argue that placebo effects are misunderstandings in changes in material effects

2018-09-12 15:31:17 UTC  

then you just say "oh we were right and all the material conditions werent right yet"

2018-09-12 15:31:21 UTC  

Hence, why they arent consistent

2018-09-12 15:32:01 UTC  

Ok, well there is no objective "good idea"

2018-09-12 15:32:15 UTC  

There are ideas which society deems as "good" or "bad"

2018-09-12 15:32:27 UTC  

This a topic in sociology

2018-09-12 15:32:34 UTC  

Which is directly shaped by psychology

2018-09-12 15:32:38 UTC  

which is directly shaped by biology

2018-09-12 15:32:57 UTC  

The success of an idea is dependent on the material conditions that the idea arose from.

2018-09-12 15:33:35 UTC  

It is not by chance that countries don't revert back to feudalism intentionally or slavery for that matter

2018-09-12 15:34:29 UTC  

Would the case of Lenin introducing NEP a good sample for this?

2018-09-12 15:34:42 UTC  

but ideas are not temporally after this chain of science- each idea is directly biology, chemistry, physics

2018-09-12 15:35:04 UTC  

If I have an idea of nationalism, for example, that idea is just a relation in my brain which is firing on certain receptors

2018-09-12 15:35:25 UTC  

It has to do with the media I consume, which is also a material relation. cyberspace seems ephemeral but all media are material objectsa

2018-09-12 15:35:59 UTC  

all signs are written in matter, all ideas are gotten across that way and are present on the physical hardware of the brain (and the brain is the most complex and significant physical object there is)

2018-09-12 15:36:36 UTC  

To me idealism can mean 1) you think everything is ideas, or 2) you imagine that the world should conform to your ideas.