Message from @Oboe
Discord ID: 591323491639230464
@Oboe The Church cannot violate divine law (so like bishops cannot legally say "murder is okay") or say some other formula used for baptism is acceptable ("in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" is *divine* law laid down by Jesus Himself, so they cannot change that). But for inter-Church matters, like what language mass can be celebrated in or what form, etc, that's fair game.
Well that wasn't my question
That's the limit of power, I'm saying, they cannot go beyond divine law.
What powers did the apostles have? In your view?
The apostles had the ability to heal the sick for instance, why do their successors not have this power?
Oh
The apostles didn’t heal the sick, Christ healed them *through* the apostles
ie the sacrament of unction
People only do when they are empowered by the Holy Spirit to do things like that.
You could also ask why any minister cannot do that
Okay so does Christ not work through their successors to do this then
He actually does
Well not every minister is an inheritor of this unique ability
There’s all sorts of cases of miraculous healing
So the Pope *should* be able to command the dead to come back to life?
And again, the sacrament of unctin
Different people have these abilities at different times and different reasons, but that's only when it is the will of the Holy Spirit for that moment.
Well, will of God
Not necessarily the Holy Spirit
So the successors of the apostles have the same powers that any other believer has then
No, only they can administer certain sacraments
They have authority over us
What about cases where Protestant Pastors have done miracles? Are these just fakes or does the Holy Spirit work thru anyone it wants to, or is only bound to heritage?
According to?
Like the sacrament of orders
Christ
@Deleted User God isn't bound to anybody or anything, He does what He pleases. Anybody could perform a miracle if God wills it so.
@Spydig But you mentioned only the sucessors of the apostles are granted these powers?
So they only have authority based on historical lineage rather than being spiritually unique
???
Only the successors of the apostles are granted legitimate apostolic authority
Not authority to e.g., perform miracles
So the Holy Spirit can create miracles thru any denomination, be it catholic or protestant?
Yeah, whenever He wants to, that's up to Him
Right so have there ever been any successors that have deviated from the Church's teaching?
Through a Muslim is He really wanted to
Yes @Oboe
current ~~pope~~
Example
Arius