Message from @Spydig

Discord ID: 591323118409220129


2019-06-20 17:41:28 UTC  

Some do not

2019-06-20 17:41:30 UTC  

They talk in the local tounge

2019-06-20 17:41:39 UTC  

Depends on your jurisdiction

2019-06-20 17:41:44 UTC  

Byzantine orthodox say mass in Koine Greek

2019-06-20 17:41:50 UTC  

The Power to loose and to bind was given exclusively to Peter, is it not?

2019-06-20 17:43:00 UTC  

@Oboe Jesus gave the bishops of the Church, the apostles, that power, and they passed it on to their successors in the Church. And yeah, the Pope is the one who binds and looses universally, though bishops and priests have some lesser authority in that (which in theory they get from the Pope, being under him).

2019-06-20 17:43:13 UTC  

Yeah

2019-06-20 17:43:16 UTC  

What he said

2019-06-20 17:43:42 UTC  

So at what point does that power cut off? Like, what powers did the Apostles have that their successors do not and why not?

2019-06-20 17:43:44 UTC  

Let’s also ignore the churches that still use Aramaic

2019-06-20 17:44:27 UTC  

All authority to teach and administer the sacraments is passed on from my understanding

2019-06-20 17:45:36 UTC  

@Oboe The Church cannot violate divine law (so like bishops cannot legally say "murder is okay") or say some other formula used for baptism is acceptable ("in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" is *divine* law laid down by Jesus Himself, so they cannot change that). But for inter-Church matters, like what language mass can be celebrated in or what form, etc, that's fair game.

2019-06-20 17:45:55 UTC  

Well that wasn't my question

2019-06-20 17:46:18 UTC  

That's the limit of power, I'm saying, they cannot go beyond divine law.

2019-06-20 17:46:20 UTC  

What powers did the apostles have? In your view?

2019-06-20 17:46:20 UTC  

The apostles had the ability to heal the sick for instance, why do their successors not have this power?

2019-06-20 17:46:24 UTC  

Oh

2019-06-20 17:46:39 UTC  

The apostles didn’t heal the sick, Christ healed them *through* the apostles

2019-06-20 17:46:50 UTC  

ie the sacrament of unction

2019-06-20 17:46:51 UTC  

People only do when they are empowered by the Holy Spirit to do things like that.

2019-06-20 17:46:57 UTC  

You could also ask why any minister cannot do that

2019-06-20 17:47:05 UTC  

Okay so does Christ not work through their successors to do this then

2019-06-20 17:47:13 UTC  

He actually does

2019-06-20 17:47:20 UTC  

Well not every minister is an inheritor of this unique ability

2019-06-20 17:47:26 UTC  

There’s all sorts of cases of miraculous healing

2019-06-20 17:47:37 UTC  

So the Pope *should* be able to command the dead to come back to life?

2019-06-20 17:47:41 UTC  

And again, the sacrament of unctin

2019-06-20 17:47:51 UTC  

Different people have these abilities at different times and different reasons, but that's only when it is the will of the Holy Spirit for that moment.

2019-06-20 17:48:05 UTC  

Well, will of God

2019-06-20 17:48:12 UTC  

Not necessarily the Holy Spirit

2019-06-20 17:48:18 UTC  

So the successors of the apostles have the same powers that any other believer has then

2019-06-20 17:48:26 UTC  

What makes them special then?

2019-06-20 17:48:35 UTC  

No, only they can administer certain sacraments

2019-06-20 17:48:36 UTC  

They have authority over us

2019-06-20 17:48:39 UTC  

What about cases where Protestant Pastors have done miracles? Are these just fakes or does the Holy Spirit work thru anyone it wants to, or is only bound to heritage?

2019-06-20 17:48:41 UTC  

According to?

2019-06-20 17:48:41 UTC  

Like the sacrament of orders

2019-06-20 17:48:49 UTC  

Christ

2019-06-20 17:49:03 UTC  

@Deleted User God isn't bound to anybody or anything, He does what He pleases. Anybody could perform a miracle if God wills it so.

2019-06-20 17:49:25 UTC  

@Spydig But you mentioned only the sucessors of the apostles are granted these powers?

2019-06-20 17:49:37 UTC  

So they only have authority based on historical lineage rather than being spiritually unique