No

Wym

Explain, stop just making claims then just not explanaing lol

As we can see from the west, better "lives" have led to degenerate behaviors and extreme materialistism

Fucking mobile excuse my typing

The state should be designed to encourage virtue

Degenerate behaviours and materialism is the fault of the society's philosophers, teachers, and parents, not cause of a result of people having better lives

The state's purpose is to encourage and enforce moral values

It's *secondary* purpose is betterment of living standards

Moral values is part of living better lives tho

If better living standards come at the cost of morals than it is not worth it

I never said standard of living tho, I said living better lives

Define better lives

Whatever that entails. If you think morality, then thats also a part of it

Not just one thing

You should've specified that from the start

Sorry

I assumed you meant living standards

No lol

Then I don't think we have much difference - it boils down to how we think is the best way to execute this goal

I promote extreme authoritarianism

And the physical suppression of degenerate thought

inb4 "hurr Durr so u want thought crimes?"

**Yes.** <:Chad:591182354270257170>

Based

East Germany is a very good example of this in terms of the state shifting the culture to promote good virtues. I can't agree with much of what it did, but I can certainly agree with that.

@Siyovaxsh En-sipad-zid-ana

Stronger central governments are destined to oppress and strip the civil liberties of it's people

No government can truly be trusted

But I'd rather have a stronger local government than central

I can't respond right now, but this is based on a faulty enlightenment view of power dynamics that I will address in maybe an hour.

Okie first of all, insecure power centers seek to secure themselves. Ordering society so that the state is in eternal power struggles will only encourage societal instability when these centers of power act out increasingly to secure power. Second of all, if the state is in line with the institutions that support it, it has every incentive to not act out as you say.

@Asdrubal Civil Liberties are not inheritly good

In most cases they lead to further degrading of moral values

Federal government ensures that state governments don't revoke rights of their citizens, lookin at you California you fucking communist state.

This is why federalism is cringe

Imagine not wanting a unitary nation

@Maksim it's not the job of the state to enforce moral values

Yeah it is

And it's not exactly civil liberties that lead to degrading of values but technology

The state is a hierarchy of power meant to enforce the will of the people

That includes moral values.