Message from @Maksim
Discord ID: 652633026613870605
"A straw man is a logical fallacy which occurs when a debater intentionally misrepresents their opponent's argument"
You literally just misrepresented my argument
And yes I can, that is history.
You’re saying values have inherent value if they stick around long nuff
I can pick a specific time period and say that is better than other time periods
By that logic hunter gatherer should be the optimal way to handle society
No, I am not
That is not my argument
What is it then?
That the values i mentioned are fundamental - and i don't mean "deeply rooted" by history - but deeply rooted in culture and that historically is proven to have worked. I can absolutely say that one time had better beliefs in my view than another time period, this is not cherry picking.
Just because something is deeply rooted doesn’t mean it’s valuable or efficient, the Chinese Empry lasted for 2 millennia
Look where they are now
The people were tired of them so they disposed of them
It worked.
For 2000 yearsd
Longer than most systems
Not forever tho, when the Qing got overthrown they were stuck in the past
Humiliated by other powers
Simply because they didnt industrialize
Yea because they saw it as a threat to their power
And it was as seen with the Kuomintang
What's your point here
The values they held were fundamentally opposed to industrialization
Hence they engineered their own downfall
What values did they hold that were fundamentally opposed to industrialization?
Social Traditionalism is not in conflict with industrialization.
It is tho, you can’t have space travel whilst believing the earth is flat
Believing the earth is flat has nothing to do with social traditionalism, and you are over exasperating and bringing in irrelevant points with the earth is flat thing.
I’m bringing up an example, fundamental Christian beliefs of the Middle Ages are an example of that.
As with the Qing the industrialization also brought in values like democracy and parliamentarianism which they opposed
Believing the earth was flat was *not* a fundamental Christian belief.
It was? They believed that for millennia
You take the meaning of fundamental and apply it to something that isnt fundamental, fundmental is something that must be there
Like belief Christ is the son of God
That is fundmanetal
Because changing that would change everything
It was? The earth not being flat changed everything because it proves the heliocentric worldview and that the earth is not the center of the universe
That is not fundamental to Christian belief
It was a scientific dispute, not a theological dispute
Galileo was an adamant Christian, if it was fundamental he would've left the faith.
He didnt.