You wanna bring that back as well,

Feudalism wasnt bad

?

Slavery only has stigma due to American slavery

Well mean going from history hunter gatherer lifestyle was the one which lasted the longest

Anprim gang

You are strawmanning

I’m not

You can’t just cherry pick when it comes to history

"A straw man is a logical fallacy which occurs when a debater intentionally misrepresents their opponent's argument"

You literally just misrepresented my argument

And yes I can, that is history.

You’re saying values have inherent value if they stick around long nuff

I can pick a specific time period and say that is better than other time periods

By that logic hunter gatherer should be the optimal way to handle society

No, I am not

That is not my argument

What is it then?

That the values i mentioned are fundamental - and i don't mean "deeply rooted" by history - but deeply rooted in culture and that historically is proven to have worked. I can absolutely say that one time had better beliefs in my view than another time period, this is not cherry picking.

Just because something is deeply rooted doesn’t mean it’s valuable or efficient, the Chinese Empry lasted for 2 millennia

Look where they are now

The people were tired of them so they disposed of them

It worked.

For 2000 yearsd

Longer than most systems

Not forever tho, when the Qing got overthrown they were stuck in the past

Humiliated by other powers

Simply because they didnt industrialize

Yea because they saw it as a threat to their power

And?

And it was as seen with the Kuomintang

What's your point here

The values they held were fundamentally opposed to industrialization

Hence they engineered their own downfall

What values did they hold that were fundamentally opposed to industrialization?

Social Traditionalism is not in conflict with industrialization.

It is tho, you can’t have space travel whilst believing the earth is flat

Believing the earth is flat has nothing to do with social traditionalism, and you are over exasperating and bringing in irrelevant points with the earth is flat thing.

I’m bringing up an example, fundamental Christian beliefs of the Middle Ages are an example of that.
As with the Qing the industrialization also brought in values like democracy and parliamentarianism which they opposed

Believing the earth was flat was *not* a fundamental Christian belief.

It was? They believed that for millennia