Message from @Jack Bright
Discord ID: 599106997635383296
There are two basic things that define socialism:
1) Redistribute wealth
2) Collectivize the means of production
Same with collectivizing it.
The only way you can do it is to make them part of the state
which is fascism.
Collectivizing is one way of saying "state owned"
That's not collective ownership.
Collectivizing the means of production is not fascism, no
No no no see
Shabang
You *cant* collectivize the means of production.
It doesn't fucking work
Sure you can, you just do it, you use force to do it
Like actually imagine what a factory owned by the entire society would look like
No, you really can't. You can make them state owned, but that means the state owns it, not the population.
How would that function
Collectivizing the means of production doesn't mean the whole society owns the factories
>Even more of a Nationalist, Conservative, and Revolutionary than me
OOF
But that's the intention, that they be used for the collective good.
Revolutionary National Conservatism @Brigade?
But state owned it's not really that, it's for the good of the state.
and it just turns into state owned.
Which is fascism.
It means that the private individual does not own the factories, meaning an individual can only be *allowed to run* a factory, but it can't own it while running it
Yeah but what if you're running it and someone else wants to run it
one of the several million other people in the country
That's one of the problems, yes
and who pays for it
the maintenance
the materials
Practically speaking it doesn't work
The Soviet Union failed because of this exact problem, because you failed upwards
Being truthful was not smart, because it would get you punished. So you lied. And by lying you are a failure, because no one knows how much to produce, or how much you produced.
So incompetence got rewarded
well also they had a shitload of management positions that did literally nothing all day
Yep
Central planned economy is just a nightmare, you can't really do it.
Because if everyone owns something then what the fuck is the point of a manager
You get into so much problem trying to plan a nation level economy.