oh, I thought you meant WAAAAy back

like roman times

oh yeah, the greeks and romans still had slaves, so i dont consider them true democracies anyways

but yeah that'd be confusing sorry

Hey guys, just joined the server.

welcome to immigration control

same. kinda

take a number

I would personally like to know how the bot knows when you've been enough of a good boy or girl it lets you in

but yeah, the founding fathers literally bribed the men with the right to vote if they fought the british

i could use such a thing on the server I admin

since, they had no money

How is that a bribe?

all women did was bitch and moan that they didn't get to vote and poof! they got it for literally nothing

@jacovich stabs because people didn't want to fight the british until they were offered political power

I mean true, there was alot of wheeling and dealing

they never earned, and they still have not shown anything that lets them deserve it

as John Adams said about the challenge of getting all the colonies to work together was akin to getting 13 clocks to all strike midnight at the same time

woman here: I agree

A bribe is where you offer someone something of value in order for them to abuse their position of power by doing something immoral. Fighting against tyranny is not immoral.

I digress. the point is, democracy fails

Mad respect to Adams

While Washington was the obvious choice given that he fought in the damn war, Adams was really America's first real president

props to Jefferson too, even if he did have a habit of sleeping with the help. 🤣

@jacovich stabs the founding fathers dishonestly persuaded the then american populace to act in their favour with political power. Bribe

How was it dishonest?

yeah, Bribary usually requires an intent of dishonesty or illegality to be considered Bribary

otherwise it's just Enticement

true, they weren't dishonest about it, but they were dishonest about other things in line with their republic (all men are created equal yet some of us still have slaves)

you got me

im a liar

again that goes back to the 13 clocks statement

the northern colonies NEEDED Virgina and the Carolinas

they wouldnt have gotten that if they abolished slavery right then and there

Seems to me that they just told everyone that they should fight for them because, among other things, they'd honour their civic right to vote.

and the fact that both Jefferon, AND Adams lemented and debated that decision to NOT abolish slavery, but understood it was a required concession to win the war

the hope was they would abolish after things had stabilized

well then the french revolution happened

then the spanish

and so on

freedom making waves