Message from @JoeyJoestar1337

Discord ID: 618651865747554304


2019-09-04 03:12:21 UTC  

My probably is that nothing your saying actually requires religion, u can build up a similar system without it

2019-09-04 03:14:07 UTC  

Doesn't need religion?

2019-09-04 03:15:02 UTC  

I don't think you get the full scope of what a religion is

2019-09-04 03:16:18 UTC  

Okay, what is ur scope on religion

2019-09-04 03:17:20 UTC  

My point is simply that secular countries can still operate with good laws and morals (as we see for the most part today)

2019-09-04 03:21:43 UTC  

Metaphysics matters imo. Not everybody has to delve into it completely like you said but just because you can't or you feel some people can't/don't have/need to doesn't mean one person who sees *potentiality* in the world around us can't take it in and share it. It's the explorer, inventor, scientist, and men of God/faith who share this essence. That's what leads us forward instead of staying stagnant as society is now within its morals and laws.

2019-09-04 03:24:59 UTC  

I feel like if you take any point in time morals and law would seem relatively “static”, also secular moral philosophy exists (and there are always lots of new moral problems especially to do with tech these days that let us go forward)

2019-09-04 03:27:42 UTC  

Well obviously not look at ppl today lol

2019-09-04 03:29:18 UTC  

Morals relating to people

2019-09-04 03:30:34 UTC  

Nobody would be acting out doing shootings or these socialist riots beating people if everyone didn't have a common belief and faith. At least not as much I would imagine. It would just be heated standards.

2019-09-04 03:31:33 UTC  

Nobody would be questioning their sexuality if they hadn't already believed, in good faith, God n His example n such.

2019-09-04 03:31:52 UTC  

People don’t agree on things no matter what they believe , like even within religions people disagree and cause a lot of shit...

2019-09-04 03:32:42 UTC  

With protestantism and catholics I get understand lol even protestants within itself.

2019-09-04 03:33:41 UTC  

But even in the Catholic church there has been the schism since 1054 or something

2019-09-04 03:35:20 UTC  

I just want more people to be Christian lol modernity is a crock and all the subjective stuff revolving around us impacts the core of society n is making it act out like this.

2019-09-04 03:36:23 UTC  

I feel like its protestant's fault but I don't like catholics either so thats why I became an Orthodox Christian n it's pretty neat.

2019-09-04 03:37:13 UTC  

I don't think I could say some tid bit that could make everyone convert I just wanted to talk about it.

2019-09-04 03:39:05 UTC  

Well bringing it back to the original question, people are secular since they don’t see evidence for god, mostly because most “evidences” for god are from personal experience which results in people in religious circles to be the few who are exposed to anything that even be questionly be proofs

2019-09-04 03:40:35 UTC  

The "evidence" I don't think I communicated effectively is in metaphysics. For people who don't take in metaphysics or whatever that's where religion is to make things easier. I've taken a bunch of my time actually thinking a lot of this stuff through n such.

2019-09-04 03:41:38 UTC  

Metaphysics cannot produce emperical evidence.

2019-09-04 03:41:38 UTC  

A friend of mine showed me some writings by Aquinas

2019-09-04 03:42:01 UTC  

At best, metaphysics is conceptual wordplay.

2019-09-04 03:42:27 UTC  

It's how to express ideas

2019-09-04 03:42:43 UTC  

Just like there's meaning in literature and plays and such

2019-09-04 03:42:45 UTC  

Okay, but that's not evidence for god.

2019-09-04 03:43:18 UTC  

Sure it is because it's all about believing.

2019-09-04 03:43:55 UTC  

Look, there's only one way I'd ever believe in a god. And that's if he was to come up to me and perform a miracle of some sort. Even then, there's a good chance I'd wonder if he wasn't just some alien with sufficiently-advanced technology, a la Arthur C. Clarke's famous quote.

2019-09-04 03:44:23 UTC  

And you don't believe. You have faith. These are different concepts.

2019-09-04 03:46:04 UTC  

Also, I just looked up Aquinas again, and his 5 ways or whatever are mostly just answers we don’t know yet, which doesn’t really prove anything

2019-09-04 03:46:17 UTC  

God of the Gaps.

2019-09-04 03:49:57 UTC  

Faith is apart of believing not the other way around first of all, secondly, why would he have to manifest Himself as a mortal being to *you* specifically in such manner? Even when the Bible already talks about Jesus. But you don't believe in Him and I get that so going forward. Your very conciousness, and everything around you that you perceive n such. Even if you were to explain the universe around you, all the atoms and the energies there of it doesn't explain for your conciousness.

2019-09-04 03:52:54 UTC  

errrr, ur brain is responsible for your consciousness...

2019-09-04 03:54:52 UTC  

No lol animals have brains too, do they have consciousness? Even if they did how would you know? Assuming the didn't how would you know?

2019-09-04 03:55:54 UTC  

You can't your conscience is specific to your person alone

2019-09-04 03:56:18 UTC  

We have more complex brains... we also have no evidence to suggest that our consciousness is not just rooted in the brain

2019-09-04 04:00:39 UTC  

It isn't just your mind or your minds actions manifested through your physical body. There's something connected with the spirit. It's why we have these expressions of guilt n stuff. The 7 deadly sins even is stuff we all hate to see in people. Because we have an idea of what a "good" person is. But what does it mean what a "good" person is if all that matters is power? And in an individual society like we have today power doesn't mean much. At least not to me. Even in feudal times or whatever. The family exists. Your interaction as an individual with other families exists. What does power matter if you can slaughter the other one when you can achieve better by working together or working independently from eachother and eventually building off of each others work. By any means.

2019-09-04 04:04:28 UTC  

See again none of these require religion, guilt doesn’t, power doesn’t and same with the rest

2019-09-04 04:06:48 UTC  

Also you how the hell would u go about saying that the spirit does what we think the brain does, the spirit is not detectable or found in any way whereas the brain is and can bee seen to be responsible for how we perceive reality...

2019-09-04 04:07:16 UTC  

Near death experiences.

2019-09-04 04:07:59 UTC  

Those are a result of the brain tho...

2019-09-04 04:09:45 UTC  

I'm obviously missing stuff. I'm not some theologian I'm just saying basic stuff on why I even believe in a spirit and God to begin with n stuff. All this is good for me in my personal life and in the beginning all my question was was just why don't people believe in God more. I guess that's just a personal question for personal reasons.