We also don't have perfectly accurate records of illegal crossings as they, are illegal

For the same reason we don't have perfectly accurate records on all illegal drug deals or gun deals etc.

comparing people who overstayed their visas to estimates on illegal crossing is thus difficult to do

one is a nearly exact figure vs. something which is merely estimated

thus depending on what estimate you use, it changes

it's subjective, it could be between 11 and 40 million, some place it at much lower levels

Realistically a minimum of 11-22 million are problably here

and visa overstays are managed within the year

meaning, even if they make up half of all *new* illegal immigrants, they don't make up half of all permanent illegal immigrants

it's at best misleading

i will agree its not a useful part of the conversation, but its one that has to be dealt with anyway. putting a limit on anything but short order work visas, increasing the pool of available judges, and enforcing the end of the visa more strictly will end with a decrease illigal immigration. so, we may as well do that long with the wall. nothing stops us from doing many solutions at once and taking a large chunk out of the probelm.

> also people who overstay their legal visas tend to get them renewed rather quickly afterwards, or get deported
Your own evidence doesn't support that. If we look on Wikipedia at illegal immigrant population it states: "Since about 2014, most illegal immigrants living in the U.S. have been long-term residents. In 2014, about two-thirds (66%) had been in the U.S. for ten years or more, while just 14% had been in the U.S. for less than five years."

The report that PRI reports on states:
> The report specifies that U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) processed 50,437,278 in-scope nonimmigrant admissions at U.S. air and sea POEs who were expected to depart in FY16—of which 739,478 overstayed their admission, resulting in a total overstay rate of 1.47 percent. Of the more than 739,000 overstays, DHS determined 628,799 were suspected “in-country” overstays, resulting in a suspected in-country overstay rate of 1.25 percent. An individual who is a suspected in-country overstay has no recorded departure, while an out-of-country overstay has a recorded departure that occurred after their lawful admission period expired.

https://youtu.be/a5rBc4GS06s

So you have 628k people overstaying their Visas per year and a majority of illegal immigrants are staying "long term"

So does weez have nothing better to do but vainly argue with people all day cuz some of us have actual jobs.

you are right Nathan. i suggest we cut visas and empower ice to deport people with recently expired visa's. jobs a gooden.

Or, what you could do is, invest in those shithole countries they're coming from, making them more stable and making a profit at the same time

More money from foreign investments, more influence from those investments and less immigrants

THAT, is a better option

Yeah, he has nothing in his life to do but argue about random shit online such as "illegal immigrants are bad"

Weez is apparently worse than a statist. He's a corporatist.

not really. aid has not really worked in the decades we tried it. stopping immigration from those countries so the hard working individuals that will make the system better are more likely to stay is a better option. stop brain draining the third world, lower visa programs, and immigration rates, and let them sort their own problems out without interference.

He's a communist. Every solution to every problem eventually boils down to "why not invest in other countries"

Small brain.

It depends on the way that you implement that aid. If you just throw money at them, then it's not going to work. But if you go down there, build roads, schools and start up industry there, then that will work @Shai'tan

Stopping immigration from their countries would also be a good method while they're under development

I'll agree with that

> and let them sort their own problems out without interference.
The problem with that is, they won't fix them any time soon, which is why you need to go down there and get it sorted nice and quick.

Why not just shoot illegals in the head in front of their families if they try to cross the border, and watch them flee like cockroaches? They won't come back.

You can't just build shit for them, though. You have to get them to learn how to build it themselves.

we did that in Africa in the early 20th century. in every country the first world built infrastructure it is almost all gone or rotted away after we left.

You did that in Europe after WW2 @Shai'tan

Look at Europe now.

Get them invested in seeing it through, otherwise they'll just let it deteriorate.

It's a shithole.

But Europe actually has cultures, and the people tend to be industrious.

I agree to an extent. But obviously those high skilled positions which haven't been filled will need to be @Goodwood of Dank™

Such as, engineers, etc, etc

those countries had that infrastructure in the first place

Get them to home-grow their engineers. Set up schools and universities to help them learn for themselves.