without capital?

my point is:
capitals are natural result of trade, in order to NOT have capital, you have to enfoce it = not freedom

so you rely on state control once more

what's the fucking difference between com and ancom

capital is not a natural result of trade

keep in mind I haven't read your conversation

catalonia and makhno's ukraine were same as ussr only that they had a syndicate and a warlord ruling everything instead of a vanguard party

just peeping in

@ssk is this shitposting?

no legit question

nobody has ever answered this to me

couldnt find anything at google

the difference between ancom and "com"?

ML, whatever

ancom = com

cr

well, while they mostly have the same ideal world, they differ very much on the way to get there

while MLs believe the best way is to capture the state and transform the economy, ancoms believe the state has to go

trade will result in capital if you manage to get excess

how do you define capital?

in an ancom society
if a group started accumilating capital, would you stop them?

resources

etc

^ in catalonia they used to shoot people who exchanged goods

capital is not accumulation of resources

truly, a free society ;' )

@Sampuka i know they have the same goal but im saying the supposedly different method of achieving it is practically the same too

it is in a marxist view a social relation of production

@ssk well, one wants to use the state the other doesn't

yeah no matter how you define it, if you live in an ancom society and you accumulate resources and other people voluntarily come and help you (work for you), do you stop them?

who am I even to stop them? but also no

do people in ancom become part of a hivemind and so there's no need for someone to organize things?
cnt-fai controlled everything, but wasnt called a state for some reason

assuming you have the power to do that

a point socialists make is that it is in your material interests to not work for anyone

it isn't trade in the sense you're thinking of

when working for someone, whether the state or a private company, you HAVE to be paid less than what you labor

the economy won't go from one of non-class to class in this sense

it's mutual aid by which you produce and give in order to be able to take

like a guild-type situation

not bartering

>you HAVE to be paid less
Is that wrong in on itself?