: o

When will you criticize marxism ;p

after I understand it

well

I think the "invisible hand that fixes everything" is as wishful as thinking that good will and communism will solve all problems

then it's a good thing that no-one said either

it's the part of the simple weak theories that try to trivialize reality I was trying to communicate

Just saying you implied that I said all theories are bad trivialization of reality.
The problem I think it's obvious, dogmatic ideological follwoing

We should use political systems as tools to ends not as ends themselves

I have ancom and commie friends and acquaintances but I never really talk about politics irl with them bc I have noticed how hostile they become the moment they are criticized by others

and that's a huge issue for me

and it's scary

a theory states that if X is the case then Y will happen. One can then think that Y is preferable and therefore try to make X be the case. However, you cant say whether or not the theory will be satisfactory or not, as you do when you said "I don't think marxist doctrine provides that"

yeah that's really annoying, but that is what ideology is

well you could be ideological and still be open minded?

ideology != dogmatic zealot

in the ordinary sense, yes. I regrettably used the more zizekian version of ideology

>One can then think that Y is preferable and therefore try to make X be the case. However, you cant say whether or not the theory will be satisfactory or not
why exactly do you mean by that?

ideology pretrays itselfs as being able to see the truth, which I argue is the main reason why people strongly defend ideology

@Deleted User my point is that you cannot blame theories, like you cannot prove or disprove them

you can blame what people make of the theory

I didn't blame the theories though

I really think you're misinterpreting me

no, but you were talking about whether marxism was good enough "to work for all people, with different mindsets and endure over time", but this is not what a theory can do

sorry if I might misread you again

hmm

It's not to SATISFY all people but to affect all people so they can stay within the system.
If you have an ancom society and a fraction of that goes rogue and seizes everything because the theory didn't anticipated power-hungry people then the theory needs revision, which means it didn't work for all people (not satisfy them)

I don't see why would you disagree with that

Again my problem is that there is always a huge chunk of people that don't rework a theory

what you do when you say that ancom theory doesn't account for some part of reality, you say that it is not applicable to reality. It is the society wish wasn't able "to work for all people, with different mindsets and endure over time", not the theory. Now I see hoe these two kinda wash together with ancom, but this doesn't happen in fx USSR. People in russia used marxist theory to propose a system. It wasn't marxism that was implemented, since this doesn't really make much sense. I am also kinda afraid that we are talking past eachother, and this isn't really that important a topic since we probably agree that indeed theories should be reworked/expanded upon/whatever.

also, I don't think ancom has the problem you stated, but you shouldn't ask me about that. If you wanna know you should ask an ancom or better yet read The Conquest of Bread

it is also getting late, so I will leave soon

also, maybe it is more correct to say that USSR used Marxist-Leninist theory instead of just Marxist

the ancom was just an example

i bet if i used a capitalist example you'd be ok with that ;d

I am okay regardless, just wanted to point it out

also good night, thanks for talk

nite

are memes allowed

hi