So you're a modern day Luther? Are you saying Muhammad was not the best example and you know better?

Haven't you seen protties bragging about how they're like the first xtians unlike the evil papists?

I'd argue closest to that came the Anabaptists who even lived in communes.

Reformists are arrogant and isolationist. Why leave us behind. We have to steer the ship away from danger, not escape in a lifeboat.

Christians used to be backward as hell and Islam was considered to be more sophisticated. What happened?

The culture at least

Brb babes

@Valtiel I don't even know how to respond to that.

Happa racial superiority is what granted the Rashiduns victory

@Deleted User like Muslims had hospitals and clean water and would bath. But Europe was stuck in the dark ages. With peasants dying from the plague

I wouldn't be too prideful. God often takes away what is easily given. Power shifts around a lot in Islamic world, always has.

@Valtiel This is a meme. Not sure what books you have been reading.

What part is the meme?

The hellenic world transformed the world and then so did the Romans, whose Empire didn't offically collapse until the 5th century. Do you think that all the infrastructure disappears over night? The 'dark ages' is a misleading term.

@Deleted User 15th century

@Valtiel We Wuz Kangz n Sheit but then da evil Mongols came and sacked Baghdad.

@Deleted User no shit. It took hundreds of years for Europe to go from Rome to Feudalism

@Deleted User That's correct. My mind is always in the Western Empire, my mistake. All praise to Constantinople.

😎

@National Trotskyist when the kidnapped the Persian king?

Oh wait I'm stupid ignore thay

Persians We rent Muslims

Were not*

What is: The golden age of Islam and who took the banner of Aristotlean logic and carried it further for centuries?
Who are: Farabi, **Avicenna**, Ghazali, Rumi, Sinan?
Bonus: Early stages of Ottoman Empire until 16th century

There's that side too. Don't forget Islamic Spain, that was pretty comfy.

Khawarij just need to assassinate more rulers

no big deal

This time in history is heavily politicised.

😎

Now I'm giving you the sources to look at, without including any personal bias.

These multi-way discussions can be confusing. But thanks.

I still don't know why you became Sufi and want to reform Islam. It seems anti-historical, where the prophet was the best example, and his companions. They were not Sufi.

Simple, it is outdated.

>outdated
How do you mean?

It's the current year?

Huh? It can't be applied to today's conditions.

what do you mean

The practice, being written and applied in deserts and 1400 years ago, is totally irrelevant to today's times.

I'm shocked.

Most of it, at least. The truth still stands there, that's why we don't put it wholely into trash bin.

this is some tip top heresy you have my friend